Challenging the conventional education system, we look at how WorldSchooling actually imparts more important life skills that are often overlooked amidst the hustle & bustle of life. Joined by TEDxEdu speaker and CoFounder of Project World School – Lainie Liberti, we discuss the importance of empathy and opening up to perspectives. Learning is a lifelong journey and the world might just be the best classroom.

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The following is an extremely summarized version extracted from the transcript of the full conversation. I strongly recommend listening to the podcast for all the valuable insights. You will also hear more detailed and contextualized stories from the guest(s), as well as pointers from me in a two-way conversation.

Tell us about yourself and your background story.

My story started in 2008, that’s when my son and I decided to leave the United States and travel. We lived in California, and I owned a business. I’d spent 18 years working in advertising, marketing, and design. For the last eight of those years, I owned an agency; it was a boutique branding agency that was doing quite well until 2008 when the California economy crashed. Being a single parent, I felt so much stress and overwhelmed. I was not managing, balancing my time between parenting and running my business. I always thought I’m doing this for my family, that there’s a reason why I’m doing it. But I honestly wasn’t great at managing and balancing my soul when the economy crashed. My son, who was nine at the time, said Mom, you’re always working, you never spend any time with me – heartbreaking.

I just said to him; You know what, let’s have an adventure. Let’s sell all our stuff and just put on some backpacks and have an adventure together. That was the beginning; it was the best thing that ever happened. That was 12 and a half years ago; we didn’t go back. We’re still on our one-year trip. You never know what can happen. Many changes happened on the road; he was nine, just turning 10 when we set out, and he’s going to be turning 22 in April. Time flies, and his entire childhood was nomadic. We stayed in different places, and we immersed ourselves in different cultures. We were present in our own lives and had so much to talk about.

How do you feel world schooling has benefited your son?

Before we left, I sat down and hammered out how we wanted to experience this adventure. Part of the things that we came up with was we wanted to be in partnership; it wasn’t my decision, and it wasn’t his decision. That was important for us. We applied that concept, and we were already pretty much practicing it. However, from a parenting perspective, I was still the authority, and we live within the conception of conventional life. But this was about a partnership; this was different. I would always be the adult, he’d always be the child, but the decision-making was ours to make. That meant that how we would spend our budget would be decided together. We also decided to develop important themes to us, and mostly really important to my son. Although we had a close friendship, he said that he was very customed, to me saying no to him due to lack of time. So, this was going to be a journey into saying yes. Be careful what you set into motion because you have to balance what was safe and what wasn’t aligned with our core values. These were conversations that we were having in our family structure all the time. But I hadn’t been able to say yes to adventure and opportunities and being spontaneous. We were stepping into this with the idea that, yes, would be a big part of our journey. About eight months into our journey, we had done a lot of traversing back and forth. We stayed in some places and did a lot of different things. My son said he wanted to keep doing it forever, and I agreed. That was when I had to shift gears and shift mindset, and figure out how to make this sustainable. That was when I had to address the educational portion of it. We are always learning. We have brains; that’s what we do. Suppose we shift our mindset to acknowledging that we are all life-learners. There are many ways to learn: experiential learning, social learning, and actual academic learning. It extends beyond what we call the education system, so I needed to look at the educational portion.

We had learned tonnes about the history and the places where we were. We learned about archaeology and anthropology. We learned about our relationship with the environment and the cultures. We looked at how cultures progressed; it was fascinating. Looking back on the first eight months, we were learning effortlessly because we were so engaged in the present. We empowered each other to follow what we were interested in seeing, doing, and learning. That was a powerful epiphany, the realization that learning was happening. Even though I took my son out of school, I knew that this was a better education than he would ever get in fifth grade. I just thought, let’s continue this path because I learned so much in those first eight months without even trying. I learned because we were present, and I was curious; that’s what my brain does. So ask questions, be present, take in new information, integrate it, give it meaning, and connect it to other things; that’s learning.

How has world schooling developed your understanding of worldviews and challenged the norm? 

That became a theme within our travels over the last 12 years. We’ve given classes on this, and the exploration of worldviews is a powerful and necessary process, especially in a globalized world. We’re connected; this is a global way of connecting. One experience we had that drilled home how vital worldviews were was when we were in Ecuador, off the coast in this little fishing village. We had our perception of what the environment looked like, and we ran this through filters of our own experience. We were having a coastal chat with locals, and our worldviews were then imposed on them. We met teachers and schoolchildren within this village, and they were working to integrate the beaches and the surrounding jungles as part of their learning environment.

I would have never seen it that way; I just would have taken that for granted. We met the conservationists who looked at the ocean as a place to preserve. That was slightly different from the teachers’ and the villagers’ perception because now they’re concerned with the whales. The villagers and the children, we’re looking at some of the fables and myths around the immigrating whales. We met the fishermen, who went out on the boats every single day and came back to the beach and started gutting and cleaning and selling their fish leaving behind tons of fish waste on the shore. Their focus, their perception, was looking at this to provide for their families. They were all coming at it from different perspectives, and then our mindset was different because we were tourists. At that moment, we realized that there is no such thing as one global worldview. The more we recognize that there is space to have different worldviews live side by side and not be threatened by each other but coexist. That’s our work as travelers. That’s our work as world schoolers. That’s our work as humans, creating that space, finding the bridges of connection, instead of focusing on the differences.

How do you feel understanding perspectives is an important life skill? 

I’m not a big fan of conventional schooling; the idea that you must pour these academics into kids’ heads is lame, especially when we’ve got phones where we can access any information at our fingertips. What I can say is more important is creating problem-solving skills. You do that by being in the real world and looking at real-world situations, research, learning how to be curious, and not be afraid of your curiosity. That leads to learning, resilience, collaboration, and cooperation; all these things happen while traveling. You call them soft skills; I call them life skills. Those are the most important things for us to practice, not only when our children are small but also for us adults to practice too because most of us didn’t have the opportunity to learn these things.

Do you feel travel and world schooling have helped develop you both as a person?

It did for us, and in terms of where I was before we started traveling, I did a lot of self-development work. I read so much about how to be president in your own life, but I never had the time to practice it. It helped me; personally, my self-development as the human I was supposed to be, was meant to be or wanted to be. Travel for me was that vehicle; I got to express myself as a person and be in touch with myself. I realized that travel for me and world schooling with my son was that gift. It wasn’t my intention, but I’m glad that it developed that way. I can’t even imagine who my son would be had we not left or who I would have become had we not left.

I love being in this world, and I love having this amazing classroom. I never knew that the world, both the inner and the outer worlds, were so rich. I was so focused on the outer world before, my position, status, and bank account, that I forgot about the inner worlds’ richness. I got to rebalance those scales quite a bit in terms of balancing. Part of my saying yes was because I saw how different life was. It didn’t have to stressful, and there was so much joy. The other thing that I realized was, I had almost missed out on the first ten years of my son’s childhood because of my addiction to being busy. I didn’t want that anymore. I was willing to cherish however much time I had left my son’s childhood because soon he’d be growing into an adult. He’d be off leading his own life. What an honor it is to be a parent; what a great joy. I wanted to have that experience. I did hear from some of my professional friends; you’re committing professional suicide, but I was finally able to balance what was important to me.

What challenges did you face in your world schooling journey?

Our biggest challenge as parents is de-schooling from this lifestyle to another. We are looking at these belief systems that are so ingrained in us that the voices of doubt come up; is my child learning, will he go to university, am I ruining his life, but those are not my voices. But they do play in our heads, and when these things play in our heads, we’ve got a couple of things that we can do. Number one, hear what is said, figure out where they come from, and then challenge and shift these beliefs. What would happen if you trusted the experience of learning naturally, without putting these arbitrary rules that come from somebody else into the relationship. Learn how to acknowledge those thoughts, learn how to listen to them, and choose to reprogram them. I decided not to put arbitrary rules and controls into my son or family relationship. Those things shifted how I lived. We decided early on to be in partnership. So if the concern is that I want you to understand math because I believe these things are essential, we can work together to do our budgeting. Let’s figure out how much money we need; let’s translate the money into a different currency; let’s figure out how long it takes to go from place to place on a train. It’s in context. It’s not this arbitrary thing. There are ways of creating these things in context without imposing a rule to learn them. Stepping back and being in a partnership, in dialogue, and processing what’s going on in those inner worlds. If it’s thundering and lightning and raining in the outer worlds and inside, you’re feeling joyous, then you look at that as a beautiful time to go out and dance barefoot in the rain. But how are we going to process that together?

Did you follow a curriculum during your world schooling journey?

We never used a curriculum; people who world school approach the education portion differently. There are many ways to worldschool; we took an unschooling approach, which means we didn’t separate life from learning. That invited me to actualize and step into my natural curiosity and engage in the world around me. I was always curious; I still am always curious. I’m always looking at something or reading or watching or listening to something. I’m always curious, why does that tree outside my window have those little spikes? What does it mean? And why are the seeds you turning into what looks like cotton? It’s just bizarre, and so that actual question led me into researching. I understood why that tree looks like that and why it turns into cotton. I don’t have to learn that in the class. When curiosity comes up, I’ve got this device to seek out those answers. Modeling this natural curiosity also invites my son to tap into his ability to ask and answer questions. So, did we follow a curriculum? Not at all, that wasn’t our choice? Some families do because that’s what’s important to them.

How did you manage the challenges of building relationships while traveling?

My son struggled with what he perceived as isolation and not having a social network, and that coincides with the time of the brain shifting social learning from the family unit to a friend unit. That’s what adolescence is about; that’s why friends are crucial during adolescence. We had a deep heart to heart at that time. Did he want to carry on with this lifestyle or stop? We decided to bring people to use. That was the birth of Project World School; I learned everything I could about adolescent development, hosting communities, learning communities, travel, how to structure retreats, planning everything. I didn’t know what I was doing; I learned. The first year, we got a couple of kids, and it was hard; we made some mistakes. We revised and improved upon that. Each year, we added more and more retreats. And this then developed into our primary income stream. Until 2020, we were doing four to six retreats a year, and that’s anywhere from two to four-week retreats. I loved it; I love working with teens; I loved helping and creating space for them to process the inner worlds.

We just spent all this time doing this, and now I wanted to facilitate this. I realized that it was such an incredible opportunity for teens to step into their power because I worked in partnership with my son; I extended that as the team retreats’ foundation. Together we came up with a structure and an ideology that worked for us. So that’s what we did. We brought teens from around the world, lived in community, we been to Ecuador, to Mexico, to Peru, to Japan, to South Africa, to Wales, to Thailand, all over we’ve made these incredible trips,and realized that this is the work that I loved doing. I loved working with teams. That was a big part of the business creation. Parents started saying they would want to do it too, so instead of hosting retreats, we began organizing conferences. They were hubs where all the world schoolers out there traveling could come together twice a year, in different places. The parents needed community, and so did the younger kids. We launched the project, World School Family Summits, and met in Mexico during Spring. In the fall, we would alternate between locations in Asia and Europe. Many families came to all of them; the whole community was coming together, learning, and sharing. It was such a powerful part of our lives.

Last year, I launched a company where I’ve been working with teens online. I’ve been teaching them during 12-week courses tools for self-improvement, processing their inner worlds, managing stress and anxiety. We unpacked some of those big feelings they’re having, and all in harmony with their brain development because I had eight previous years of working with teens; I knew what they were facing. That launched this year, and my son is co-teaching the younger group with me, so we’re still working together, but we’re doing it online with teens and tweens. Then I launched another project with another friend of mine, working with parents. I taught world schooling parents how to design a family culture that worked for them at all the summits and all the conferences I hosted. The feedback that I got from the families that were traveling was that we would have killed each other if we had not had these strategies and tools. Families that had never spent so much time together are now working from home. Their kids are doing school from home. The company that I recently launched with my friend Sarah is to teach these skills to any parent who’s interested in partnership and parenting in their homes. I’m taking what I’ve learned and adapting it for pandemic times.

How have you changed or adapted your business in response to the pandemic?

There is so much value in connecting in real life. We need to look at this past year as an extreme and glean everything we can from learning from that experience but recognizing that human connection is essential. When the pandemic first hit, I was in Mexico for our Project World School Family Summit. Everything just started getting shut down, and I immediately investigated how I could support my community. We would do women’s circles at the Summit, where it would be a very sacred space for the group’s moms to be seen, be heard and speak their truth and connect. I brought that online to the women in our world schooling community. Every week until December, I hosted a weekly women’s circle for free to ensure that they had that safe space.

My son and I also started hosting free teen meetups every week and then a second age group for the tweens. We would make sure that we had this safe space for teens and tweens to connect with their friends and meet new friends worldwide. We played games and had so much fun; we had a blast. My commitment to world schoolers has been about serving and providing value. I’m still doing the teen and tween meetups. Another couple of women took over the women’s circle because it’s really about the conversations we’re having among all these age groups. After all, I can’t wait to get back together and go on trips and hug people. I’m not losing hope. I’m balancing what is safe, when’s the right time to do it. I think we might be having a Project World School Family Summit here in Mexico in June. If it’s safe, we’re doing it.

How do human interactions impact your philosophy of service?

It’s part of my core values. I worked in advertising, and there wassomething soul-sucking about creating consumerism that got me so off-balance. I felt like I’m not going to look for purpose and meaning in my own life, through the outer worlds anymore. What lights me up, what really lights me up. I love that I’m on my path; I’m on purpose when I’m supporting other people. I had to make sure that giving of myself and feeding of myself were balanced, so in 2020,there was a whole lot of giving and making sure everybody was okay. But I realized that my business would not start again; in 2020, Project World School. We had canceled every trip that we had on the books; I needed to take a little step back and think about how I could be of service and fold this into my work. I could easily go back into consulting and branding and web design and advertising, but it doesn’t feel like I’m of service to the world. I’m not creating any shining lights for people; I’m not helping people. That is one of my core values.

What advice would you give to parents who are considering world schooling but concerns about generating enough income?

That’s a big one; I would find support around the location-independent business aspect; that’s not my expertise. I don’t talk about that because I only know my path. I have met some brilliant people who support others in creating location-independent businesses. I would say, really work on dedicating some time to defining what education means to you, what those expectations are, and determining how you wish to experience your family culture. How do you want to engage? How do you want to make decisions? What are the traditions and rituals you want to share? What things define and design your family culture, and then find some tools that you can use to help you process some of these limiting beliefs. Know your triggers, spend some time on those inner worlds as well. When you start getting those things in order, those will not interfere with the outer world, and the outer world is what we’re talking about with world schooling. I hope that was useful.

What are some of the more common challenges or problems you think most parents would face?

The biggest issue is expectations and agendas. We must watch it when we, as parents, believe we have the authority to set our families’ agendas. If the family members don’t align with the same goals, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. If you’re in reaction mode to these triggers, you’re not going to create a joyous experience. So, watch your judgments and agendas. Create the ability to be in dialogue with everybody in the family, and make sure everybody is heard, make sure they’re seen and understood. Make sure everybody is on board because if you’re dragging somebody along, that’s not going to work. I guarantee you, if you are forcing a child to do this, you’ll have a miserable time. If your child’s resonating in fear that they’re going to miss out, then start creating solutions as a family to hear those needs and meet them. If your child is worried about leaving his best friend, maybe you could have the best friend come with you for two weeks, every six months, how great would that be? You’ll have a balance where everybody’s needs are met; it doesn’t mean your child’s needs will be fulfilled all the time, but there’s got to be that safe space where everybody’s seen and heard. Or else why would you want to do it?

Do you feel that communication and issues are dealt with more effectively with world schooling families?

Absolutely, in terms of priorities and conventional families and lifestyles, it is low on the scale. All the other priorities are at the forefront, like work, family, school, schedules, obligations, bills and lights and food, cooking, and everything else. We don’t prioritize the family culture. When you’re traveling, that’s all you have; that is the security. Somebody asked my son if he had any security because I was dragging him worldwide. But his view was that he had more security than most families because he had me. Not everybody prioritizes their family; that’s okay. Those who want to world school to spend more time with their children and give their children the world need these tools to shift from a conventional way of living; to living outside the norm. We need tools to know how to deal with each other’s triggers and unpack these big topics, create safe spaces for all of us to be seen and heard, and honor one another as autonomous beings.

The horse can be the ultimate travel companion, unveiling a different view and experience of the world. How do you pursue a passion while traveling around the world on a horseback? The Equestrian Adventuress – Krystal Kelly shares her crazy, horsey adventures, including a key ingredient in being able to complete the brutal Mongol Derby. In this fun and engaging episode, we speak about grit and determination, how traveling changes your mentality, and creating awareness for women empowerment.

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The following is an extremely summarized version extracted from the transcript of the full conversation. I strongly recommend listening to the podcast for all the valuable insights. You will also hear more detailed and contextualized stories from the guest(s), as well as pointers from me in a two-way conversation.

Tell us about yourself and your traveling style? 

I am from California, America, and I left the USA in 2010. A little while ago, I didn’t know it was possible to work with horses in different countries. I didn’t know that was a thing. I’ve always wanted to work with horses professionally. I am certified, and I just had it in my brain. I was doing it. I just went on the internet and found a job online. I just thought this is my chance – I have to do it. The first job overseas that I experienced impacted me because seven fellow grooms helped care for the horses. We were all from different countries. I didn’t get many days off. When I did, I went to see things. I’ve traveled to over 60 countries, and I have worked professionally with horses in about 20. I’ve worked in countries like Egypt, Romania, Italy, India, and many other places. I’m constantly traveling and working with horses. I’ve recently started my own online digital nomadism thing. I have a YouTube channel and a podcast, making videos of my travels and riding. I have made an Amazon Prime series where I rode on horses around Greenland for a week.

Before that trip, I didn’t even know you could do that. Here I was in Greenland riding on these horses, and icebergs were floating right next to us. Like cracking and breaking, and the horses weren’t even bothered. They’re so used to the icebergs. It’s pretty cool. I’ve traveled to lots of countries and started writing clubs. I’ve begun the only riding club in Bhutan. I’ve gotten to meet a lot of cool people. Greenland is one of those places where you can take all the selfies you want, and no one will be in a single picture. It’s a gorgeous country, with friendly and interesting people. It’s a weird place, and it feels like you’re on Mars – it doesn’t seem real. 

How did you get into horseback riding in the first place?

Horses were for the rich in California. It was not affordable for my family at all. Luckily, I annoyed the crap out of my parents, begging for riding lessons, and I promised to work in exchange for paying for riding lessons. I could only afford to ride horses two times a month. It was a massive deal for my family because it was expensive and far away. But I loved it so much. I always knew that I would work with horses someday. I didn’t know anybody who had done that before. I didn’t realize it was possible. Everyone in my family tried to tell me to get a real job. I just knew that I couldn’t live without horses. I knew I needed to work with horses because I loved them so much. I turned 15 years old and got a job at a horse’s stables. I went to school and worked at the stables – I never stopped. In the USA, I found schools where I could learn about horses. I got certified in the USA as a trainer and a coach. Then, I had in my brain that I needed to go to Europe because that’s where all the horsey people are.

What exactly do you do when you say you work with horses around the world?

People travel the world, working different jobs. There is a community of job hoppers that do that, and there are websites where people post volunteer jobs. I never worked as a volunteer. There was a horsey job website called Yarden Group, and there are lots of jobs in other countries. I started on that website because I didn’t know anyone overseas. Through word of mouth, people kept referring me to jobs. I went to Romania and got a job, because of a girl I had met. The first job I had in Italy was also word of mouth and an accident. I had Sheikhs flying me out to Egypt – once you start, it’s easy. There is a lot of job opportunities out there. Especially in India or different countries, they needed certified people to help the locals because they didn’t have access to certifications or high-quality schools for horses. As soon as they hear that you’re interested in working, it is doable to find work.

I love what I do. I worked with a lot of high-end students. It’s wealthy people who have horses and in a lot of different countries. You work with well-off people, and you must work in a certain way. You must make sure that the horses are perfect, and everything is perfect. I was managing riding clubs, and I brought in architects and designed a facility for seven horses, and none of them was saddle trained. I had like a team of five or seven men who didn’t speak English working underneath me. I had to show them everything. I had to teach them how to train all the horses and put saddles on them. I had some exciting experiences, and they learned a lot about horses.

What are challenges you faced when starting the first riding club in Bhutan?

I was living in India at the time. I had seen a picture of the Tiger’s Nest Temple, a famous temple in Bhutan. I somehow found that picture on the internet, as soon as I saw it, I had to go to Bhutan. I browsed for hours to find out if there were horses in Bhutan. I researched, and there was a $300 a day fee for tourists. I was poor living in India. I couldn’t afford 300 US dollars a day to visit this country. I was 22 years old at the time, but I had it in my brain, I’m going to Bhutan.

Within a week, I was on a flight to Bhutan because I had found one photo on the internet of a horse. I emailed the guy who had posted the photo, and it belonged to a man who owned a tourism company. He said he wanted to make a horse-riding tour in Bhutan. It didn’t exist. He said he would pay me to create the only horse-riding tour in Bhutan. So that’s what I did. I was on a plane, and I was in Bhutan for a month. I didn’t have to pay tourism fees as I was there to work. I got to see Bhutan, the Bhutan that tourists don’t get to see. When I arrived, the guy who owned the tour company didn’t tell anyone I was coming to teach them horse riding. They all just kind of stared at me – they didn’t even know women could ride horses. We had the most fun, Bhutanese people are so happy, and they laugh. They’re just such amazing people. I had lots of fun, some scary situations if you’re on remote trails, no one can help you. If somebody falls off, I must make sure everyone gets home alive. The horses are all trained, and everything is safe. I’ve returned to Bhutan twice since. I brought my husband along with me for one of the trips and my mom for one of the other trips – they both got to come, and it was a lot of fun to show them.

How do you ensure the safety of your riders?

I brought my mom two years ago, and she had to take riding lessons just for this trip. I told her if you’re going to come for this trip, you need to take riding lessons to prepare, you need to walk, trot and canter before you arrive. So, she was preparing for this trip. Bhutan now has a rescue helicopter. So, if anyone falls off, we can get rescued. That’s not the goal here. Mom was already nervous about this horse because we don’t go for a little hour-long ride. We ride for five, six hours in the wilderness. And we don’t ride and come back to the stables we go, and we sleep somewhere, and we camp, and then we ride again. Yes, it can be dangerous. If I’m training the horses, the goal is to make everyone safe and fun. But you must know how to ride and understand how to stay on. Things can happen. You can fall off; you must be ready.

How long does it take to pick up the foundational skills necessary for horse riding?

So, there’s a couple of factors here. First of all, you need to take some riding lessons, depending on which country you are in, you want to make sure that you’re taking classes from a place that knows how to teach. Sometimes you’ll show up in a country, and they’ll put on a show. You don’t want to take lessons there. If you find stables where you can take riding classes, I would tell them your goal. Your goal is not to be a professional, but you need to walk, trot and canter safely on a trail and have fun that way. It will take a few months to get the foundation skills. But the more you ride, you’ll be able to pick it up quickly; and be able to stay on safely and not die.

It is very technical. A bicycle doesn’t have a brain, so you learn how to control it. That’s the first step. And for lots of riders, that’s hard. You get on the horse, and suddenly you realize the ground is a lot farther away than you thought it would be. The horse is moving, and there are so many moving parts. First, you need to learn how to control your body and what you’re doing. You need to know how to talk to your horse and say, let’s stop now, or let’s go, or turn and do all these essential things. There are multiple components. So, it is a sport, and you will feel the burn; you will feel muscles that you didn’t know you had. If you’re doing a long ride, like five hours in the saddle, you might want to get a little sheepskin cover for it, so your bum’s not sore. You can learn how to do it and be safe and walk, trot and canter.

Why do you enjoy horse riding so much?

Yeah, and that’s why I do what I do. There is a science, and many technical things go into it. Horses are amazing, majestic, noble animals. It is worth traveling and seeing countries on horseback. The locals treat you differently. The scenery is different. Just everything about the experience is different because it’s not just you hiking up the mountain by yourself. You have this partnership with an animal, and you guys are climbing this hill together or galloping across the desert together, and they talk to you. When you ride into an incredibly remote town, and you’re sitting on a horse, the locals are amazed. They shout and wave at you and invite you for tea or dinner. Everyone loves and respects horses. We discovered different countries and landscapes, and it was all from the back of a horse; it’s a great way to see a country.

Do you find it easy to find trips that align with your passions and goals?

Yeah, definitely. The terrain can change your ride and the type of horse you’re riding, for example, if it’s very mountainous, like Bhutan, you might not gallop as much because you’re climbing up to the mountains, but they’re like little mountain goats, some of the steep things that they’re going up and down. You’re just holding on to them. In other countries, like when I was working in Egypt, it’s all desert. Every morning we would take the horses on a loop around the pyramids; that was their exercise plan. The horses would be fresh and feeling good; they want to run, you want to run. It was so much fun. I would race many of the local Egyptians, and I would beat them; they’d find it hilarious for a woman to win. I own two horses now, and they travel with me on my adventures. My horses have now been to three or four countries. My husband didn’t know anything about horses; I taught him to ride. He was an engineer and astute, so he has a lot of inspiration. But he’s not good at sports at all. If I throw something at him, he couldn’t catch it. At first, I thought it wasn’t going to work. He loved it so much, and he loves to gallop. He has a horse now, so we had this crazy idea. We lived in England, and we always wanted to go to Ireland. We brought our two horses to Ireland, and we spent two months riding them; we didn’t have any plan. I bought these two cheap saddlebags from Amazon. My horses had never seen those before. I threw them on their back and saw how they reacted. They were both fine with it, so we’re going on this trip. We were knocking on stranger’s doors, asking for a place to stay every night, which was a bit stressful, but people are amicable.

Most of the time, we always found a place to stay; it was a lot of fun. It makes you feel alive; we got on our horses in the morning, we started walking, and in the evening, we stopped, pitched our tent, and we would do the same thing the next day. I remember everything was in slow motion; I could see everything. My brain could finally process the scenery; it was an exciting experience. We would ride about 30-35 kilometers in a day. We would look at this big hill or mountain and decide we’re riding over it and then down into the valley and, and next, the ocean. The perspective of distance takes on a whole new meaning.

Does it feel like a different world when you’re on horseback compared to hiking?

Yeah, how many details would I have missed? All those tiny ruins? Or those little buildings? How many of those would I’ve driven past and saw it for a second? Then it would have been gone from my memory forever. But now I see them, at three miles an hour, it’s ingrained in my memory. 

Tell us about your experience of the super brutal Mongol Derby?

The Mongo Derby, it’s a 1000-kilometer horse race in Mongolia on semi-wild Mongolian horses; if they want you off, they’re going to get you off. I finished in 10 days; it takes between seven to 10 days to complete. It’s like the Pony Express, in the USA, they used to gallop their horses to deliver the mail and every, 10 miles or so, there would be a fresh horse, and the boys would jump off, get on the new fresh horse and start galloping another, 10 or 20 miles. The Mongol Derby, a fresh horse, is waiting for you every 30 or maybe 40 kilometers. You have to choose which horse you’re going to take for the next leg.

Every day, you’re riding 150 kilometers or more. I think I was riding three horses every day, some days, maybe four. It’s a race; you’re going fast, and they are not fully trained. It would take three Mongolian men to put on the saddle. They’re incredibly excited, very ready to go. I would check my GPS to see which direction I need to go; then, I would jump on the horse. Before I could get my feet into the stirrups, the horse would take off at full speed. They don’t stop for 30-40 kilometers. They keep running. I think 48 riders started, but only 22 riders finished. Not many people finish, statistically. I was one of the ones that finished. I wasn’t really in it to win it. There was another rider from France. He was a showjumper, and his riding style was similar to mine. He was hilarious. On day three, I was miserable, so I decided to team up with this guy, and we’re going to conquer it together. We crossed the finish line together, and it was a lot of fun. Well, painful fun. So that’s the gist of the Derby.

These horses are outstanding and used for racing. I learned how to say in Mongolian and give me your fastest horse, please. The Mongolian men would size me up and talk about me. Once all of the men followed me into a tent. I didn’t speak a word of Mongolian, but I knew that they were talking about me. Luckily, there was a translator that happened to be at that station. I asked him, what are they talking about? He asked the head Mongolian honcho guy, what are you talking about? He said they had a special horse for me. All of the men take me out, and they bring me this horse. It was the most boring-looking horse I’ve ever seen in my life. It was small; it was brown, it didn’t even have any markings. It was just the brownest, boring horse ever. They saddle up this horse, and I go to get on, and it launches itself. It was like a plane taking off; it just launches itself. For the next 40k, this horse galloped, full speed, like the fastest horse I’ve ever experienced in my life. I had some other riders who tried to keep up with me; we left them so far behind that they had no chance. I was just gone. I remember I wanted to stop and check my GPS, but I couldn’t stop him. So, I looked at the biggest mountain I could find, and I pointed him in that direction. He galloped to the top of this mountain, finally slowing down just enough for me to check my GPS. I turned him around, and he galloped full speed down the mountain and kept going. That horse was crazy, but I loved it.

It was the most fun I’ve had, and I will forever remember that horse. When you pull up in the horse station, they have vets that check the horses to ensure they are healthy and okay. They check the horses’ pulse because if the pulse is down, that means they’re very fit, and I didn’t push him too hard. That was his special pony; I was thrilled that I got the special horse.

How do you control a wild horse?

Most people go to the Derby, trying to control the horses. Or they try and ride the horses like they’re westernized horses, like first world horses with first world problems. Those horses don’t care; they’re wild; if you start fussing with them, or messing with them, trying to do stuff, they’re going to buck you off and keep going. They don’t need you.

I remember at one point on that same horse, there were terrifying Mongolian steps where there are Marmot holes, and you can’t always see them. At that speed, if a horse puts its foot in a Marmot hole, the horse is going to flip, it’s going to crush you, you’re probably both going to die. I remember telling myself; this horse lives here. He knows what a Marmot hole looks like. I’m going to let this horse do what he knows how to do. I’m not going to tell him what I think he should do at all, and that’s what I did. I dropped the reins, and I just let him choose the way as long as he ran in the direction that I wanted him to go. I didn’t care, and I didn’t fuss with him. So, you must use your instincts, your common sense. In Mongolia, everything made sense to me. I used my intuition and my gut. If you try and read it like a map, if you’re pulling out your iPhone, like where’s Starbucks, you’re not going to make it. 

I remember I did get a horse; he was horrible to ride; it was awful with terrible horses. If you get a horse, which is very lazy, you can’t ride for 40 kilometers, kicking it and trying to make it go because you’re going to wear yourself out, the horse is going to win, or he’s going to buck you off. So it takes two and a half hours on a fast horse to get from one horse station to the next, on a slow horse with mountains and marshes, it took me seven hours; I just kind of accepted the fact that I was riding a donkey. You can’t build a huge bond with the horse, but seven hours is enough; that horse and I can understand each other and develop mutual respect. We have to coexist, and hopefully, we both make it to the horse station.

Do you view your horses as travel companions?

Yeah, they have opinions. They have personalities; every horse is different. You’ll never ride the same horse twice. We own two horses, but every day is different with them. We had no way of preparing the horses for semi-trucks traveling 80 miles an hour next to us on our trip to Ireland. Do you know what I mean? Now, that’s where you find out how much that horse trusts you. So, it’s an experience. They have a soul; they have a mind, a personality, they have a heartbeat, it’s not just you and your team. The horses know better than us. It’s better just to let the horse pick their path or choose their way. The exception is if you’re a trainer. I’ve worked with baby horses; these are interesting to ride because sometimes they make bad decisions.

Have you had any misadventures before and been injured? 

I’ve fallen off horses; that’s just inevitable. I have been to many hospitals in many countries that you probably don’t want to visit. That was, you know, something I had to get used to. I’ve never had something that bad that I needed a helicopter. If no one is there to help me, I find a way to overcome challenges. If something breaks, even in Ireland, we were trying to find a place to stay for the night, or we had a hurricane coming, we always managed to find a way. That’s what happens in travel; you always find a way. You meet somebody friendly, and they help you.

The worst fall I’ve had would have been in Cairo. It was a showjumping accident. My horse stopped at the jump. It was quite a big jump; it was 1.30 meters. My horse stopped just in front of it. It was a horse that had never stopped for me before, so I don’t know what happened. It happened so fast that I just flew into the jump, and my leg somehow swept the metal pole. There was a little wire poking out for some reason, which sliced my leg open. I was so high on adrenaline, I got back on the horse and went to jump again. My coach had been giving me a lesson, and he called me over, and I’m holding my leg off the saddle, and he looks at me, like, what are you doing? The grooms take my horse, and I go to the bathroom.

You see, I knew it was terrible before I saw it. But I was so kind of focused on my legs that I didn’t even realize I didn’t shut the door to the bathroom. I pulled my pants down and looked at my leg, and I hear my coach say, we must go to the hospital. The journey was fast and bumpy. I think I was 21 years old at the time. I have all these male doctors around me. I don’t think they’d ever seen something like that; he had to stitch me up; I had to get 32 stitches. They had to sew the muscle and the leg; it wasn’t good. The doctor said that I wouldn’t walk at all or ride for the next six months. It was not a fun situation. It never occurred to me to go home to America, I stayed in Egypt, and I continued to work. I’ve just moved on with my life.

What is your mindset or mentality when you go on risky adventures?

As a female traveler, there is a risk of safety. That’s just an unfortunate thing as women; we must deal with. Then there’s an aspect of taking risks, my courses or challenges, and problematic situations. I think my mindset and personality like challenges. I like the idea of doing things that other people aren’t doing. I think it might feel like, what am I thinking; this is so stupid; I’m in pain, this isn’t fun. But at the same time, something magical happens the more you do these kinds of experiences or challenges. You understand what you’re capable of, and you see how resilient you are. I don’t think it’s something special. I believe anyone can learn this.

I don’t look at myself like I’ve done something others can’t. I started the day I got on the plane to work in Egypt. That was the scariest moment for me because that was the day of the Egyptian revolution. My family called me saying, turn around, come back. If you go there, you’re going to get kidnapped or killed. I’m not saying everyone should do it. There are certain situations where you need to be smart, but I just had this inner voice inside me that said no, there are friendly people everywhere. I don’t care what religion, I don’t care what language, I don’t care what country you’re from, there will always be friendly people to help you, there’s always going to be a way to overcome whatever challenges you face. That’s the mentality I had. I’ve never been proven wrong. I’ve always had somebody friendly swoop in and save the day or invite me in or, whatever it is that I was facing, or I conquered that challenge on my own; you find out what kind of person you are. When you can do those kinds of challenges and think back to my life in America, the problems I used to have are minor; I almost cannot go home to the US anymore. Just because I find everyone else’s issues stupid, and I’m sure many of the listeners find this.

I remember I had one friend; I stopped talking to her because I would call her, I was excited about my adventures, and she would be talking about guy problems. I couldn’t cope with that anymore. Once you’ve started doing this and find out what you’re capable of, you almost can’t go back to what you were doing before. I’m at the point that I need something so wholly insane to top the last thing I did.

What would you say to people concerned about the negative side of traveling?

I think people are terrified of bad things. I lived in India for two years; no offense, but every other person was trying to scam me out of money. People trying to grab my boobs every day was a fight for me. Yes, there are many terrible things, but you know what I learned? I adapted, and I figured out how to deal with it. I figured out how to overcome it. I figured out the secret sauce of having fun there and being safe and checking all those boxes. Yes, it’s maybe not for everyone, and there are many obstacles, but it made me who I am. Now when I travel places, I can see the trouble because I think you need to take it and learn from it every day of your life. Also, remember to laugh at those challenges. It’s going to make the most exciting story later; someday, you could be on a podcast telling your stories.  

I think it helps empower you, especially as a woman. I lived in Egypt for two years; I do speak Arabic. I was in Florida walking around at nighttime. I’m walking, and suddenly, these five men start catcalling me; in Arabic, I knew what they’re saying. I stopped, spun on my heels, and they’re all giggling at each other because they think I don’t understand. I tell them in Arabic, watch yourself, don’t ever speak to a woman like that. I turned on my heels and walked away. They went dead quiet and kept their eyes to the floor. They were ashamed that they had done that. I felt so cool. I remember walking away from that, thinking I had probably just saved many women from getting catcalled by these boys. I’m glad that I could handle it and that it wasn’t some girl who couldn’t. I walked away from that feeling like a badass. 

Talk to us about female empowerment and how that fits in with your business?

Equestrian Event Dresses started as a Facebook group; it exploded. I found out that many women in western countries ride horses. Many women also really want to travel, and they want to travel on horseback; they all joined the community. We have a podcast; we have a YouTube show; we have an Amazon Prime; we have all kinds of things happening. It started because I was traveling to all these places, and at one point, I felt alone; I was always so low. I was always doing all these awesome things, and I just felt like there must be more than me; I can’t be the only one doing this. I remember I was sitting in Bhutan, and I was training all of those men and one of the young girls who was a couple of years younger than me came up to me; she was the daughter of the man of the house, we were staying, so she wasn’t involved in the horses at all. But she had been watching me every day coming back from work with these men and having all these stories, and she saw that I was kind of in charge. She came up to me shyly one day, and she said she didn’t know women could ride horses. She didn’t think women could work with horses. But now she knew; those words meant something to me because I noticed that even when I was traveling, I was the only woman there sometimes; I could convince one or two girls to ride with me. I did notice a shift in the men’s attitudes because suddenly it was possible. And the men would come to me, and they would ask me questions about horses or see what I’m doing, and they were curious. It meant something to me.

I wanted to share women’s stories, not my stories, but other women who are doing amazing things with horses in different countries. Some of them are locals doing amazing things with horses; we have a woman from India. She’s the only female dentist, like a horse dentist. We have women coming on our podcast sharing their stories. When I went to Greenland, I filmed a woman who co-owns the horse riding tours with her husband. She’s a super cool lady. I interviewed her a lot, and it’s just a lot of fun to travel to these places and connect with women and see things from their perspective.

I was in South America and Brazil; I got invited by a girl. She was the only girl who would participate in a 750-kilometer horse race, an endurance race for 15 days. She asked me to come along, and I interviewed her, and things are different when you’re a woman, like when you need to pee; where will you go? You are in an open field. I could share with the other girls an immediate sisterhood. It’s just interesting when you think about something like that, but it happens. The gauchos have no idea that this is a problem. It’s just a passion of mine, and I’ve been lucky enough to do a business out of it.

When I’m traveling, the men are essential to my safety. I’ll give an example; I did a car rally – this is how I met my husband; I met him in Azerbaijan at this car rally. I was the only woman to drive from England to Mongolia and back, solo. I had this situation happen, where my car engine exploded in Kyrgyzstan. The thing is, I had been traveling with this convoy of men and, they were from England, or Germany, they’re from different countries. All these men, British and German, left me there. They got in their cars and drove away, except for my husband, he followed me for a little bit, and then he also drove away.

I know I’m able to handle myself, but just from this perspective, I would love it if men would consider the gravity of that situation. I was a solo woman in a car with no working engine. I know how to handle it; it’s okay. But it’s not an ideal situation for a woman. I’m far from the nearest airport; it’s like a 12-hour bus ride. They all drove away, and they didn’t think anything of it because they don’t have to worry about stuff like that. It’s so important, and I try to help them be aware that they have a responsibility, even if they meet a backpacker, and hang out for a couple of days. You have this responsibility as a man, not necessarily taking care of us, but be aware. Just be mindful that we do have to deal with these things. That by itself makes a big difference for us. I’ve traveled with some men who have saved my life. Just because they were there, it does not just empower women; it’s both.  

How do you cope with your passion being your business? And how do you turn it into a viable business?

I think the one thing I did wrong when I started was I tried to do what everyone else is doing. Everyone’s blogging; I need to have a blog. Everyone’s YouTubing; I need to do it. Everyone has a podcast; I need to have one. Everyone’s on Instagram; I must be on Instagram. I tried to do everything, and to be honest, it just killed me, sucked the life out of me because I’m not good. I’m not an Instagrammer. I’m just not; I don’t care. I don’t want to play on it; it is not my jam.

I enjoy YouTube, so you must find the one thing you like for yourself. If you like podcasts, and that’s your jam, you can make it work because you love it. So, the most important thing is you must love it because if you don’t love it, you’re going to quit after a month or a year. If you’re podcasting and you love it, you’re going to keep podcasting and do your thing. Then someday, somebody will pay you, and things will happen. You must love it, don’t try, do everything, pick something you enjoy. There will be emails to deal with or technical things, but that’s all learnable skills. Set yourself like a schedule and be consistent. I’m going to the podcast Monday through Friday, from 8 am until 9 am. Pick a schedule, pick a day, make it a part of your daily habit. When I was in Greenland, I would ride anyway and turn on a GoPro camera.

I love YouTube; I like being on YouTube. I love watching YouTubers; I’m obsessed. My video doesn’t get 500 million views, but I like doing it. I’m already riding the horse; it’s no effort for me, so why not throw it on YouTube? If it makes money, great. If it doesn’t, whatever. That’s how it starts. As far as having a business and a passion, I would say you need to treat it like a business; you need to take it seriously. It would help if you were consistent. You need to learn the skills required to have a website or whatever basic things you need. Also, connect with other people if somebody sends an email, respond.

Reach out to people. If you don’t know how to do it, I promise you; there’s somebody that does. If you want to make money podcasting, reach out, send emails; worst-case scenario, they don’t reply to you, and then you harass someone once more or find someone else. Network with them, talk to them. The great thing about travel is, I feel like we are a tribe; there is a community, and I would never turn another traveler away. So many people havehelped me in my travels. If you messaged me asking for a place to stay on your travels, I would help you. I think a lot of travelers are like that.

I don’t think I ever really met a traveler that would turn you away. If they could genuinely help you, they would. Pursue one thing, and keep working at it until you can monetize it. Once you start making money with it and realize it’s possible, it gets easier to make more money. If you are consistent, people will start listening to you or reading your blog, or watching your videos, and they’ll start sharing it with their friends. It will grow, but you must stick with it. Don’t give up.

You don’t have to have all the answers right away. I wish when I first started, somebody told me I could make money on YouTube; I didn’t even know that was the thing. I was traveling around all these countries for so long. It never occurred to me to turn on a video camera when I’m galloping around the pyramids. But you can’t kick yourself for what you didn’t know, don’t punish yourself for it. If it doesn’t make money, don’t compare yourself to others because it will come. When you start making a video, let’s say you get ten views, and one of those viewers comments positively on your video; are you telling me that that comment is not worth it because it didn’t get a million views? If one person listens to my podcast, and it changes their life, then it’s worth it. Hopefully, that person will be kind enough to share it with their friends, and that’s how it happens. Just be true to yourself, share your stories, get the message out there. Please don’t be shy. Don’t avoid being on camera. You can learn how to do that stuff. If you like writing, be a blogger. You can learn how to do it, even if you don’t know how, so don’t worry about it.

How important is perseverance in content creation?

You might be quitting just before that one video you didn’t publish gets a million views. So that one blog could have been it, and because you didn’t do it, you missed out. You don’t want to do that; be consistent. Just like when we’re traveling, and we already know as travelers, I’m going to go to that country, and I’m going to have a fantastic time because I’m going to learn from it. We do that naturally with traveling, but for some reason, when it comes to business, we forget that it’s the same. It’s funny, one of my blogs from two years ago, I think I got a paycheck for two cents. I haven’t been making money with that blog for the past year. The blog that I published a year ago made me two cents, whoa! Celebrate those little wins.

We have a book series; it’s true stories, women who travel on horseback doing amazing things. We collaborated, we put it into a book, and one of the biggest mistakes I saw was somebody would send me a story or an idea for a story, then demand a ridiculous amount of money, and the reason that that’s a big mistake is that she missed out. We published the books, and the books are popular. We’ve had over 3000 downloads. Everyone published has their author bio, and they have a link to their blog. All these people who’ve been in my books get all kinds of free traffic and promotions; I have so many people messaging me, saying, I loved her story. I’m stalking her now on Instagram, or I’m buying her other book.

I think the worst thing you can do is not understanding value. When working with other people and other business owners, think about the return of investment on promoting yourself, just sharing your story and sharing your message. Then people are going to findyou. If you share a story, and it’s amazing, I’m going to follow you and stalk you. When I started traveling, I worked for free. I didn’t make any money initially or made such small money. It was a joke; I couldn’t even pay for food. It was so ridiculous. That’s how I started, but I don’t do that anymore. You must be open-minded to do stuff for free initially, be open-minded to reaching out to people, and say, I haven’t gone anywhere. Would you mind if I sent you a blog once a week, be creative, reach out, don’t just close yourself off, and say, I need $5,000 a month; I’m not going to do it for less.

How do you feel the internet helps the opportunities for this generation? 

Right now, we’re talking about digital nomadism. For ten years, I was working with horses in different countries. Sometimes I would be in that country for two weeks working at that stables, sometimes, six months or two years. It varied depending on the job. Sometimes people would fly me out; I’d work, and then I’d leave. It differed in all sorts of ways. That’s how I got to see those countries. I didn’t even have any jobs lined up in India. I saw Slumdog Millionaire and decided I’m going to work in India. But I could not find anything on Google about any single horse stables. But I was going anyway, so I booked a ticket; a one-way flight. I just showed up, and I started talking to people, and people wanted to help you. Jobs came from word of mouth; that’s how I got employment in India. I never went on the internet except to find that picture of Bhutan. Once people found out I was in India, I got a phone call every day from somebody wanting me to come and see their horses. You can work in these countries at a physical job or work in exchange for a place to live or for fruit; that’s how I started. There are so many opportunities; if you are skilled in anything. There are people in every country that need those skills; there are so many opportunities. Now, especially we are so connected, it’s way easier to find many of these opportunities; you can fly off without confirmation of a job.

Study hard, find a well paid job as a lawyer/doctor, get married and have kids… Sounds familiar? This traditional definition of a successful life progression is applicable worldwide, and especially prevalent in Asia. The region is home to many digital nomad hubs, but the lifestyle is not as common among Asians. In this episode, Kach from the Philippines shares how she broke free from this traditional mindset to find her own success and happiness while traveling around the world.  We discuss family communications, building remote income sources, creating a successful travel blog , yacht life and Montenegro as a home base.

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The following is an extremely summarized version extracted from the transcript of the full conversation. I strongly recommend listening to the podcast for all the valuable insights. You will also hear more detailed and contextualized stories from the guest(s), as well as pointers from me in a two-way conversation.

Tell us a bit about yourself and how you started from your journey of a corporate job to basically travelling around the world and meeting the love of your life and then to where you are today?

My name is Kach, and I am from the Philippines – in 2013, I quit my job. I worked in Kuwait and Iraq for almost four years – my last job was for an oil company. Before I know it, it was like a quarter-life crisis. I was 24 and earning decent money for my age and my nationality. I decided to quit my job and then go travelling for six months, like just a sabbatical using my savings.

But unexpectedly, I met my husband, Jonathan, who is four years older than me. He had left his architectural job to go backpacking and go on a motorbike trip around Southeast Asia. But his plan was not like six months and going back to the UK. He planned to retrain and become an English teacher. He knew that teaching English abroad as a British citizen would make good money. So, he was on a motorbike trip around Southeast Asia and ended up living in Hanoi, Vietnam. I was only backpacking, and I decided to travel for two, three months. After meeting Jonathan in Laos, Luang Prabang, I realized I liked this guy and wanted to meet up again. So, I visited him in Hanoi, Vietnam, where he started teaching English and ended up not leaving. I ended up teaching English there. And we live in Vietnam together for almost nine months.

Then we decided to travel the world. We booked our flight tickets to India, where we live and travel for three months. That’s where we trained to become yoga teachers and massage therapists because we knew we wanted to keep travelling, but we needed to fund our travels. We didn’t have that much money, just some savings from teaching English in Vietnam. After that, we flew to South America, where we lived in Peru. We volunteered in exchange for accommodation and breakfast. At this point, we decided to start a travel blog, and that’s where it all started. A few years later, I’ve travelled to 144 countries. My husband and I’ve travelled to around 80 countries together. I’ve travelled solo more than him especially when we lived on a sailboat for two years. During this time, I would go out and travel solo for two to three months per year.

How did you go from the Philippines to working in Kuwait and Iraq? Why did you choose these countries?

Filipinos usually go abroad to work and most probably to the Middle East. The reason why I chose Kuwait is that my father had been living there for ten years. He works for the Ministry of Dental Administration. I planned to work for the Philippine embassy because I planned to take up law. But then I found a job in the private sector, earning good money for a 20-year-old Filipina. Why would they go back to the Philippines? Then I learned about Couch Surfing, backpacking, because in the Philippines when you travel, you stay in hotels because that’s the only vacation. But when I learned about these platforms, I realized I would never go back to the Philippines. I would not become a diplomat, so I could have a diplomatic passport that would allow me to travel to other countries. I didn’t need it. I could couch surf.

How did your parents feel about your desire to travel and changing your plans?

My parents separated when I was seven. I was raised by my mom. I didn’t have a close relationship with my father until I was in university and needed to ask him for an allowance. When I finished university, he offered to send me to law school. For Asians, our parents pay for our tuition fees. But in university, I was a scholar. So, they didn’t pay anything at all, except for miscellaneous fees. I ended up not doing law. When I arrived in Kuwait, my father helped me get there. I never really grew up with him. I don’t really know him that much. I lived with him for a year. I brought my mother from the Philippines to Kuwait. She’s also a dentist, and she left everything to come with me. My mom is pretty cool. I moved out of my father’s house and moved in with my mom. I was exposed to the international scene, meet new people who liked travelling – it was just like my dream. I left my current boyfriend – we separated because we had a different mindset. He wanted to have a family and to buy a house in the Philippines. I never really imagined myself having children anytime soon.

My mom raised me to be independent, so when I told her I was moving to Iraq to work and then started backpacking, she never really questioned my decision making. She knew me – she raised me how I am. When I left my job to go backpacking, my father had many comments. He thought if this guy’s living with you but isn’t going to marry you, he had an old mindset. He didn’t talk to me for years. When my blog started to have more attention in some newspapers and had more followers, he started talking to me and thought I wasn’t a failure. He accepted what I wanted to do. But he didn’t communicate with me for three or four years. But that was quite normal because I didn’t talk to him from elementary into college.

Is there anything that you do during your travels that relieves your parents concern?

The good thing is that at the beginning of my travels, I met Jonathan. We’ve been together since 2013, so my mom was not worried. We have travel insurance, and they are aware of our itinerary – they know our schedule. I don’t call them because they know everything from our travel blog on Facebook, so everything is heavily documented. But if I don’t post, I inform my mum why. The only time she has been worried was when I had a car accident in Pakistan in 2019. I make sure that every year I bring my mom to a new country with me. We always have a catch-up. She knows that I can handle things, and she says that she always prays the rosary because she’s very religious. She says “God is guiding you, so I’m not worried about you.”

Tell us more about the challenges that you faced travelling as a Filipino? I know you address visa issues a lot. What are other challenges?

Having a Philippines passport, it’s always hard to get a visa – thankfully, I’ve passed those hurdles. If you’re a first time traveller, the impression is that you are going there to look for work and not go back to the Philippines, that you want to work illegally with a tourist visa. That was the historical perception. I passed that hurdle. The hard part now is getting a visa to visit some African countries.

In some of these countries, for example, in South Sudan, or Sudan, the closest embassy is in London or France. For me to go there, I have to get a visa to enter France or the UK to get a visa to enter South Sudan. That is the reason why my husband and I decided to sell our sailboat and move back to the Caribbean to live there. It’s not easy travelling to other places – that is why we decided to move to Montenegro. We’re able to get residency, making it easier for me to apply for visas to these countries that we planned to visit next. The other issue we had was our Filipino currency – it is not high and getting visas for a passport is difficult and expensive. Aside from all the requirements that you have to submit, you have to show three to six months of bank statements, proof of your income, the reason you’re going there, and have a guarantor or an invitation. For African countries, the complicated part is where you will apply and how long before you could apply.

Can you debunk some of the myths that Filipinos often have about long-term travel?

They ask about safety and how safe it is. I couldn’t answer it, because it depends on the location and the situation. You could avoid going out at night, those kinds of things. Of course, you cannot control accidents – you never know what will happen next. Another thing is how expensive it is. One thing I want to debunk is that if you quit your job to go travelling your career or your life will end. However, you could build a career from travelling and doing something. That’s the big trend of digital nomads – why work from home if you can work anywhere. I don’t consider myself a digital nomad anymore – I have a permanent base and still travel. I will never lose that part of the adventure.  

On social media, I post personal things as well as reality. That’s why we have two pages. One is two monkeys, where I’ll post the best things in life or guides and how to teach people. Then we have a page, where I post everything that I do in a day, even if I’m complaining, my health issues, just the reality. People need to see that this is the reality of life. It’s not just like super nice unicorns all the time. If they compare it to life on Instagram, it’s different because that is just the highlight of your life. 

Travel blogging is another thing that is very often misunderstood by people. Can you tell me about your journey shifting from backpacking to teaching English and then writing a blog?

We got into the travel blogging world in 2014. I’m not saying it’s saturated now – everyone has different personalities, different journeys, different style. If you decide to start a travel blog, do it, it’s not too late. When we started in 2014, not many people were doing it. We had a niche and was able to get into that market. People don’t know we worked 18 hours per day because you had to write content, do SEO, keyword searches, photos, and we spent a lot more time promoting it. If you have no readers, then there’s no profit. You have to learn about affiliate marketing and how to get sponsorships. Sponsors will only come to you if you have enough readers and analytics to promote and prove it. You need people who follow your blog, and they have click-throughs and a good return on your investment – my ROI is high.

Some people write travel blogs as a hobby to share them with family and friends. Some people do it for a business. It helped pay for our trips, with buying our house and paying our bills. Before travel blogging, we tried teaching English, doing yoga and massages and e-commerce.  We then started to do lifestyle blogs, that kind of thing, you end up making money from your commissions, and you have to think of products and services that you could sell to support your experience. If you have a good readership or following, they will buy your products and services.

Eventually, with our travel blog, we got sponsored by Turkish Airlines, and then hotels and tourism boards. That’s why we’re able to stay in nice hotels and get proper tours – otherwise, we would still be in the backpackers’ hostel. If you go to our two monkeys page and look at our first photos, one with a brown and a white monkey with backpacks. You will see that we didn’t expect it to go so big. It was just for fun – we call each other monkeys. It’s a good brand, Two Monkeys Travel. Our goal was to go from monkey backpackers to luxury travellers. Law of attraction works dreams do come true.

How long did it take for the blog to become sustainable full time?

We started the blog in 2014, and it took off in 2015. We purchased the domain name in 2014. Our first writing income came from Rappler, a publication in the Philippines. They paid us $50, and they agreed to give a link back to our brand-new website. We wrote an article that went crazy viral – it’s on social media, on that website. We got immediate clicks on our page, so that was a good thing.

Then we partnered with the TEFL company because we were writing about funding this travel. We told them that we were ditching English to make money to travel. We started the Blogspot in March when we were still in India. We started content and promoted it as Blogspot by June. We bought the domain in October, and by January, we made $1,000 because we were promoting a TEFL course. Then we signed up for Agoda, booking.com, Skype – where you can make money from affiliate marketing. Once we graduate and got more followers on social media, we got more sponsored posts. We had 10,000 followers, so we asked for free night stays in five-star hotels, in exchange for working together. It was like a snowstorm. Once we had a higher domain authority and more readers, we could get more sponsorship and advertising.

We were making money by January 2015. But you need to maintain the momentum. It’s not like you just made money, and then you’re done. You need to make sure that you are consistent, and you have to be diverse. In the beginning, we had some volunteer writers because we couldn’t afford to pay for them. But they got a free trip to places in exchange for content.

Now we have six full-time staff working with us, who manage some of our websites and help us with our social media and editing.

Tell me about life on a sailboat because that was in the last few years of your life?

After we got married in 2016, my husband wanted to have a boat, but we’re broke. In 2017 we were able to buy a sailboat because he was semi-retired, and we’re making passive income. You know passive income is not passive – you need to work to make money from it. So, we bought that boat in the Florida Keys in May 2017. Jonathan has an RIAA certificate. He figured out the boat, and I went to Africa. I travelled to 17 countries in Africa for almost three months, and then I went on a Caribbean sailing cruise with my mother. When the boat was ready, we went to the Bahamas. But two weeks after we arrived, the Florida case was hit by Hurricane Irma. In the marina where we were, there were 300 boats, but only 50 survived. Thankfully, our boat was still there in the morning. It had minor damage. I believe in miracles. My husband had been visualizing it was protected by a bubble. We were so worried because the boat wasn’t insured. It took us two months to fix it.

By February, we took off with a cat, Captain Ahab, that we adopted in the Florida Keys who survived the hurricane.  We didn’t know how to sail – we just followed the cruise ships. Later, we sailed around from the Bahamas until we decided we sell the boat and move back to Europe. It was amazing, and that’s the reason why we started Mr and Mrs Howe sailing blog. The Two Monkeys travel took a hit as it couldn’t be related to living on a sailboat. Not everyone wants to live on a boat or buy a boat. Our followers were affected, but we had a different kind of following.

What was the pros and cons of live on a sailboat?

People assume we left the boat because I didn’t enjoy it. But it was my husband who stopped it. I loved the sailing life. In the beginning, I didn’t because we didn’t have a proper shower on the boat. Before we sold the boat we realised that we had a hidden shower – the space is tiny.  If you want to go to land, you must get there in a dinghy. We mostly stayed in the Marina, staying on a boat with a shared bathroom, just like backpacking, but we have our house that we’re dragging along with us. You have the freedom to go to islands when no one is there. The sailing community is amazing. Most of them are retired, and they are chasing freedom. We’ve met wonderful friends through sailing, and of course, it’s just adventure – you never know what’s going to happen. Jonathan is the skipper. He’s always under pressure making sure the boat doesn’t sink. My only worry was, what are we going to eat tonight?

Why did you guys decide to settle down in Montenegro?

When we sold our boat, we planned to move to Europe, but not the UK. We wanted a lifestyle, and we couldn’t afford that in the UK. We wanted to eat out. We wanted to go sailing. We wanted to go travelling. We wanted a luxury lifestyle on a budget. We thought of moving to Portugal or Spain, which was feasible because there wasn’t Brexit, and we could get residency, but then we got invited to go back to Montenegro. I had visited Montenegro twice before moving in 2019. We loved it because we love sailing, and we wanted to buy another boat. We could go sailing in Boca. Jonathan loves motorbikes, and modern Agra is known for the motorbike routes and cycling routes.  I got my residency before Jonathan. He was stuck in the UK because of COVID.  

The country is tiny and still cheap -the lifestyle is so laid back. It feels like you’re in the Caribbean because the people are so chilled, super-nice, super approachable. You can find fresh food everywhere. Everyone has a garden, fresh veggies, and fresh meat. You could have alcohol and eat steak or eat seafood with every meal. We live in Herceg Novi, and we are close to three different airports. We could cross the border to Dubrovnik, we could fly anywhere, and we travel a lot. Buying a house was not our plan. Our plan was just to rent for a year. We ended up buying a house because I had a car accident and couldn’t walk for a few months. We were renting in a penthouse without an elevator. Even if I went to therapy, I couldn’t go up and down all the stairs. We had enough savings to buy a house, and then COVID happened. We couldn’t renovate our house.

If I showed you around, you might end up buying a small house with land to grow all your vegetables. For someone like – my husband and I, we really couldn’t live in cities anymore. We preferred to live near the city but still be up in the hills surrounded by mountains. We have cats, and they are happy to run around the village. We don’t have neighbours that live here – it is just their summer home. The city is tiny, and people talk. They think we are weird until they met us.

What are your plans after COVID? Are you looking to go to other countries?

The reason why I wanted to move to Montenegro was, so I could easily bring my family here. If I immigrated to the UK, it would not be easy to bring family or friends who want to emigrate. We started the company, and we are the only licensed company in Montenegro – that caters to Filipinos and other Asian nationalities who need a visa to emigrate to Montenegro. It’s promoting to immigrate, but we’re targeting more business investors because job opportunities here are not high. The country’s population is 600,000 with not many businesses, but it’s going to boom when it becomes part of the EU. So, we plan to settle down, get our company sorted, bring our stuff here and my brother. We have just come back from Moldova, where we spent the week for work, and my brother looked after our cats. We have a big plan to go to Africa – it is a continent that I haven’t visited. We’re travelling on a truck, and that’s our big goal. I still aim to travel to every country in the world in the next two or three years. And then maybe after that, adopt more cats.

Do you think this is the best time to go to Montenegro, before the boom?

Imagine Croatia years ago – people were buying properties there, it was easy because Croatia was not EU. Now it’s not easy to get into Croatia, even for tourism. It’s not easy for Asian people to buy properties there or get a residency visa. Montenegro is trying to be like Croatia. Montenegro has just passed a law for any start-up companies to be tax-free for your income and corporate for five years. Now is the best time to get into it because they’re trying to make it like a hub. They are trying to bring more digital nomads to Montenegro. Not just to invest in properties, but this is where they could have their start-up company.

How easy is it to buy property in Montenegro as a foreigner?

Unlike in other countries, you own your property 100%. For foreigners in the Philippines, you can only buy a condominium, and you cannot buy land. We have a house in law that is shared, 50/50, between my husband and me.  There is no standard rate for properties in Montenegro. They don’t have a systematised real estate. It all depends on how much people want to pay. There was a property boom in 2016 when all the Russians arrived here. They paid cash to buy everything because nobody was checking where the cash was coming from. Now it is a little bit stricter. Now, because they know that Montenegro will be in the EU, there is no rush to sell. They will have more value. Now, because of COVID, a lot of Russians who bought the properties – are selling them cheaper because they wanted cash. We paid half of what the Russian guy was asking because we had the cash. It’s cheaper to buy in Montenegro, but there are no mortgages. You pay for everything in cash. You must have a lawyer and a court-appointed translator. You cannot do anything, document wise, without a court-appointed translator. It’s for your protection, and it’s a requirement by law that you have that. We saw the house on Monday, and we put an offer in on Tuesday. The Russian guy flew from Moscow by Thursday. We checked everything in the house on Friday. Then we signed a contract and transferred the money from the UK to Montenegro. We couldn’t send it directly to Russia because there’s a blockage. On Saturday, we met the previous owner, we flew to the same airport because we were going to Bhutan, and he was going back to Moscow. When we got back from Bhutan, the house in our name.

Is the process always that fast?

It is not easy for others – you must do your due diligence. You must make sure the title is clear, that there’s only one owner, because sometimes there are multiple owners. Buying from another foreigner makes sure that the title is clean. We’ve seen more and more on the market because my husband has been getting into it. We’re not into real estate, but we’re just helping some people get permission from the owner and connecting them. There are now so many Russians trying to sell properties, it’s just getting cheaper.

What would be your best advice for Filipinos or Asians who want to get into long term travel?

Just get out there, get out of your comfort zone. People, your parents will worry about you. Because if they don’t, are they psychopaths – they should worry. The best rebuttal is, you raised me. You raised me to be independent. Before you get into long term travel, you need to make sure you’re quitting your job, which is easy. The hard part is sustaining it. How can you sustain a lifestyle like this? My tip for you is to learn new skills to work online, then work as a virtual assistant. Do anything that would make money and the lifestyle sustainable. You don’t want to get exposed to this world and run out of money, then go back home, get back to your old job and do your old thing. Because you’re no longer going to be your old self.  Quit with a plan of how you could sustain the lifestyle. I always say to our readers, YOLO – You Only Live Once, but you need to think long term. Always think about what’s next but enjoy the moment.

The gig economy is growing faster than ever, and freelancing is one of the best ways to take your career on the road. In this episode, serial entrepreneur Alex Fasulo, shares how she made over a million dollars as a freelance writer on Fiverr. We discuss strategies to succeed on freelance platforms, lifestyle tips to get into the right hustle mindset, and how to branch out into more businesses from a successful foundation.

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The following is an extremely summarized version extracted from the transcript of the full conversation. I strongly recommend listening to the podcast for all the valuable insights. You will also hear more detailed and contextualized stories from the guest(s), as well as pointers from me in a two-way conversation.

Hi Alex! Although most people know you as the Fiverr girl, you’re actually a very self driven entrepreneur that is running multiple different businesses. Tell us about that, and also about yourself.

I guess I’m what you would call a serial entrepreneur, because I am always working on 10, 12 different projects at the same time beyond just doing Fiverr. And I obsessed over Fiverr the last five, six years, it’s obviously paid off for me. I get bored very easily, so I ended up doing all of these different crazy things. I run a business with my mom called campfire trailers where we take horse trailers and flip them into mobile bars. I have my own mobile app called IPOP, which is a trending photo map app. I have my own personal brand. I have my bookstore online courses.

I’m always exploring different businesses, and actually recently very much looking into residual income that can kind of generate a certain base of income each month for me, not so that I could retire because I never really actually want to retire. That’s definitely at the top of my list.

I think I think that’s where the Internet has changed everything because one person now can run five different internet businesses. Whereas in the past, you know, you would just have your one business, that’s all you could do.

What do you think are the pros and cons of using Fiverr versus building a website and trying to do sales and source clients?

Fiverr gets me more leads than I could ever get on my own. So when I log onto Fiverr, every day about 20 people have messaged me that night seeking out my services. But I haven’t been able to replicate that on my own, with my own LinkedIn or email.  I’m trying to match it but I just can’t. The leads that Fiverr gives me, you can’t compare to it. So Fiverr takes 20% and Fiverr, in a way is the boss of you still, which any classic type A entrepreneur person doesn’t like having a boss. Which is why I am actually exploring getting my own leads. I don’t want to forever be the Fiverr girl, even though I am the Fiverr girl, and I’m proud of it. But I don’t want to forever be that. I’m putting in a lot of work right now to actually find my own leads.

The differences on Fiverr, it’s easier in the way you sign up. The leads can start coming in immediately. To go find the leads on your own, you have to put in time, you have to set up systems, you have to figure out what works and what doesn’t work. But in the end, you’re not losing 20%. So that’s kind of the trade off. I think it’s a fair one. I think it’s fair that Fiverr takes 20% because they do get you your leads. They’re working as your marketing department. That’s just the trade off with it.

What are you doing to put your eggs into more baskets in terms of your writing business?

I’m actually freelance on Shopify, they have a closed marketplace. And actually, Wednesday this week, I’m speaking to a guy who does email automation. And I’m going to sign up with him and have him start reaching out to email lists to get me my own personal clients. And I’m also going to start doing it on LinkedIn and through Instagram DM. So I’m going to have email, LinkedIn, and Instagram, hopefully bringing me high paying leads. I don’t want to have to go for the volume where I need 10 a day. I’d rather find three of them that need 100 blogs a month or something like a big order.

I’m starting doing that because Fiverr again, it’s been great, but I want to start branching out and maybe grow my own personal business that’s not necessarily affiliated with Fiverr. It’s just smart to not be reliant on one thing you know, that’s a scary place to be in. And I always tell people starting out freelancing, “Don’t just do one site. Try Upwork try Fiverr try Freelancer try a bunch.”

When is a good time to raise your prices?

I always tell the people I help that there’s two times, two signs, you should do it. Fiverr has a ranking system. When you advance a rank, like if you go from level one to level two or level two to top level, you can justify a price increase because Fiverr has promoted you, in essence. And the other time is I’ll have people say to me, you know, I’m working 16 hours a day, I’m turning work away, you know, my profile has blown up so big, I don’t know what to do, I’m turning work away. And I always say to people never turn work away.

So if that is happening, I’ll say to people raise your prices, but not dramatically. you don’t want to startle your people, I say if anything, do very subtle price raises like $5 at a time, nobody will notice. And next thing you know, you do at $5, six months later, $5, you know, six months later, next thing, you know, you’re making, you know, double what you were making, and the client doesn’t even really notice. Obviously, it is a case by case basis. I don’t want people to come and say, “Oh, I raised my prices, and I lost all my business.” That’s why I say raise them very gradually and small, like small raise amounts, because you don’t want to send all your returning clients out the door. Some of them might drop off, but you’ll get new ones, it’s all part of the process.

I had a big jump in my pricing, because I went from level two to Fiverr Pro, top 1% of the platform. And I went from charging $25 for something to $100, which is insane. I got a lot of angry messages from buyers, when they saw that their $25 package is now $100. They were like, “who do you think you are? Are you kidding me?” And I was like, Listen, I don’t know what to tell you Fiverr pro starts at 100. But since then I’ve gotten all brand new clients that come in on a $100 price point. So I understand that fear. But if your quality work is increasing, then you’re always going to have a buyer who’s willing to pay for it. But don’t scare your buyers if you don’t have to, don’t do a massive increase for no reason.

Talk to us about your mindset and how that transition went for you.

It was funny because I didn’t really have a choice of how it went because Fiverr said hey, if you’re gonna be part of this program, you’re gonna have to increase your prices a lot . It goes into the marketing, if you’re the top 1% of our platform, we want your price to reflect that. It’s like, if you go into a store and you see a $10 lamp and an $85 lamp, you’re just gonna assume the $85 lamp is higher quality. It might not actually always be the case, but you’re gonna assume it.

I just went in full steam ahead. I lost most of my older clients. But the people who are on the platform looking for that top 1%, they’re out of a really rich Corporation, or they have a ton of money. They then see me and buy from me.  They want to tell their friends, “Oh, I used Fiverr Pro.” It’s all that same buying psychology. So if you have a fear that you’ll never have new clients. I get that fear. But don’t let it stop you because it didn’t stop me. And now I’m at a point where I’m obviously making way more money than if I had hung around $25.

What’s your secret to time management?

It’s waking up early everyday, no matter what, even if you’re out late the night before. Duty calls. It’s following the same schedule, even if you’re travelling, like it’s no days off, it’s actually quite boring stuff.

It’s being a very disciplined and focused person, and actually realizing that there’s nothing sexy about time management at all. And there’s nothing sexy really about being an entrepreneur or freelancer. You’re still at your computer busting your ass like the same way you would be in an office place.

So it’s just classic stuff, like I’ll turn my phone over, or I’ll take a break around noon. I make sure I eat fruits and vegetables, things that are will help me stay alert. When it comes to time management, there’s no time to make up a reason why you’re not focused one day. It’s waking up and committing yourself to being focused no matter what.

How do you stay focused when you’re writing, and then switch your mind to other tasks in other businesses?

It’s a good question. I segment my day out where first thing when I wake up until about right now actually is writing business time and nothing else. So it’s all about Fiverr, getting my own leads, growing my writing team every day. And then lunchtime hits, I’ll eat some lunch, maybe workout a little go for a walk. And then in the afternoon, I’ll segue from writer- writer to photography, videography, filming Tick Tock social media.

So let’s jump into the media side of my brain from like two to five. And then at five, I’ll go back to the writer brain for like another hour or two to close up the day. I’m my most focused, my most intensely focused in the morning, which is why I do my hardest work, my writing in the morning. So like by now I’m done with my writing for the day. And my brain isn’t as focused in the afternoon, but it’s still able to do creative stuff, like film or take pictures, because that’s not as taxing on my brain as writing. So I’ll kind of my natural focus, because I think some people are more focused at night.

Are you still doing all the writing yourself?

So starting, last year, like 2018 was when my work started to become too much for just me. So in 2019, I started working with one other writer. And then 2020 I actually brought on one more, so it’s me and two other writers. I actually think I need a third now. I have my app guy, two writers, two virtual assistants and my guy who edits my podcast, so the team is growing. I use them all in like an independent contractor arrangement. So they’re kind of like my freelancers that freelance for me, but it works out. And I’m sure I’ll add a few more this year even.

Looking at the people that I know, especially digital nomads entrepreneurs, we are working a lot more than the normal office hours sometimes. What’s your situation like?

I feel like what people don’t get from the digital nomad life is that yes, you are travelling, and yes, you are seeing really amazing things. But well, yeah, what you just said is, you’re often working overtime for it. Because if you’re not working, you know that work isn’t going anywhere. It’s still waiting for you. So if you decide to take a four hour break in the afternoon to go hike in the Rocky Mountains, that’s great, but you’re gonna have to do that four hours of work you miss when you get back to your room. But I think it blends work and play a lot. There’s not really a work life balance, and you have to be okay with that. Because, you know, you can play as you go, but you also need to work as you go. And you might have to work all day Sunday, you might have to work Saturday morning, because you want to take Monday off to go do something local.

Like if you’re on a hike. You know, you might have to answer an email while you’re on the hike. So, it’s like I think it’s romanticized and it is a great thing and a really cool thing and I think it’s awesome, you’re travelling all the time it is great but you’re working really hard too, really hard. Same thing with influencers I feel like influencers get a bad rep. And I think people think it’s, these girls sitting around doing nothing, you know, be like oh, bring me a fruit bowl, but it’s like I’ve seen the behind the scenes of it and those people are busting their asses still and they’re taking 5000 pictures before they get the one and it’s not glamorous, you’re sweating are yelling at each other like you know nothing is as it seems ever. It’s all marketing.

How do you balance between work and travel?

Well I have a hotspot on my phone that was huge. To be able to bring the internet with me, I think is really important. I mean, because I have a team now if I’m going to be flying all day, like I was last week, when I went to Utah, in advance, I’ll just outsource more of my work to my team. That’s kind of how I’ll handle travelling. I’ll just rely more on them than I normally do. And I’ll usually give them a heads up like, Hey, guys, you know, for four days, I’m going to be doing this. So I’m going to be outsourcing more work to you than normal. Is that okay with you?

So it’ll be kind of a system like that, where if one of them tells me like, hey, in June, I’m getting married. So for this whole week, like I can’t do anything, and I’ll be like, No problem. Thank you for telling me that. Because then I’ll know going into that week, I’ll have more work than normal. So it’s kind of just like an ecosystem where, if I know that I’m going to be, it’s an intense travel day, I’ll kind of hand more of it off than normal.

How’s your travel style? Where do you usually go? And what kind of things do you usually do?

Um, all of it? You know, I feel like I’m getting more anti city and more outside of city fun. I’ve lived in New York, I’ve been in Miami, I’ve been in LA I’ve been in all the big cities. So I feel like for right now in the US, I’m having fun exploring all it’s lesser travelled parts of the country. And that’s just kind of been my focus, because I’m 28 now, and I’m less into partying and drinking stuff than I was like six years ago, and I was 22. I was like, Oh, I want to go to Reykjavik and Tokyo and all these places, and I want to party and go to the clubs. And now I don’t really want to do that anymore as much. So I’m happier waking up early and like going to find a really cool hike with a waterfall. So right now, like yeah, nature and like less city focused.

You’re transiting from being a freelancer to building a personal brand. What are the challenges that you face along the way?

It’s funny, I was actually talking with some girls I have in a group on Instagram this morning. And the challenge I’m having right now is taking what I have, this brand and almost finding a way to make it even more universal. Because I want more people to want to join in on it naturally. All this time, I’ve been the Fiverr girl, the freelance Fiverr girl. And I’m kind of working to figure out a newer, more umbrella brand, which is like the remote work girl or like the girl helps you quit your job, like something that’s way more applicable to like everyone. So it’s kind of scary finding a new brand that includes that but other things too, and finding how to word it so that it resonates with people. I’m currently trying to figure that out right now.

Tell us more about the mindset to have when you want to put yourself out there as a content creator.

I guess I’m just at a place where I recognize that anytime you apply yourself at anything and put yourself out there, you’re going to get negative feedback. Because people are going to be jealous and they wish they could do it too, so they’re going to be triggered by it. And so be it, I’m going to just be authentic and be myself. And now I’m in a place when people write really mean things where I can actually just laugh because I recognize it really doesn’t have anything to do with me. It’s conjuring up something in them that they hate or that they’re sad that they can’t pursue their dreams or whatever it is. So I really just don’t take it personally anymore. And I have fun sometimes, in the comments. Sometimes I like to make jokes and have a sense of humor. So I’ll make a joke back to someone’s nasty comment.

How do you make yourself stand out as a freelancer or freelance writer?

I always say to people, the first thing I say to them is to get the idea of saturation out of their head, because there is no such thing if you wake up and bust your ass. You’re asked to commit yourself to being the best. There’s always room for you if you’re gonna work your ass off. So I’ll say to them first, you know, you have to have that conversation with yourself. Are you willing to tell yourself that saturation doesn’t exist and do your best? And then if they’re like, Yes, I am. I’m like, Okay, so now you’ll make it to the next step here, online on freelancing sites, you need to build trust with buyers.

So the quickest way to do that was to do I say things, have professional photos taken of you with eye contact, smiling, and plaster them all over your freelancing profile because that builds trust. That tells people you’re not lying or not saying you are someone you’re not. And it just helps us to see other human beings to connect with them. So plaster your image around everything, you don’t care if you’re shy, they’re not, you know, you’re not modelling here, you’re just showing people like I am who I say I am.

Now, to help with that trust, people want to see examples of your work. So if you don’t have a portfolio, do free work for people and make a portfolio, you know, you need to have examples of your work to show buyers. You can’t expect them to just go on a whim and go, this person’s never done an order in their life, let’s see how this goes. You’re gonna wait a lot longer to get your first line if you do that. And when that happens, when all those things come together, people will review you. And the third step, and they’re gonna leave you the best review that they can leave because you’ve gone above and beyond for them. You’ve won their trust, they like you, they’re gonna leave you a five star review.

That’s social proof. And then the next person who comes along, they’re gonna see that five star review, they might not even need a sample of your work anymore. They’re gonna trust you because the first person is vouching for you.

So it becomes this cycle that kind of speeds up more and more and more. And it all starts by understanding that these people need to trust you. So whatever questions they ask you answer them, be open, be honest, don’t lie about yourself. You don’t need to lie. No one’s asking you to say, Oh, I’m the CEO of this this and this, they know you’re not. And that’s okay. Be transparent. Show them examples. Be willing to work with them.

Just do it. You know, a lot of people talk about it for a year. I’m like, You wasted a year. Just do it. Don’t be scared. So many people are so scared today. I’m like, there’s nothing to be scared about. You’re not buying a house. Just do it. I give them the little path they need to get moving.

What’s the worst that could happen?

How do you run a successful Food and Travel YouTube Channel and still have time for your loved ones? In this episode, we talk about lifestyle balance, developing the right creator mindset, and tips & tricks to ace content creation on YouTube and social channels, with David Hoffman from the popular channel – DavidsBeenHere.

FIND DAVID HOFFMAN HERE:

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• Link

The following is an extremely summarized version extracted from the transcript of the full conversation. I strongly recommend listening to the podcast for all the valuable insights. You will also hear more detailed and contextualized stories from the guest, as well as pointers from me in a two-way conversation.

Hey David! Please give an introduction of yourself and a backstory.

My name is David Hoffman, world traveler entrepreneur from Miami, Florida. I started travelling at a young age. I did like a six week trip with my sister and brother-in-law to Spain back in 2000, and that’s sort of where my love for travel started.

From there, I took a trip every chance I got, either visiting friends or family. Whenever there was a break, I always try to travel. My main goal after that first trip was to see as much as I can. In 2007, I did a four month solo trip hopping around Europe, and I had an idea to create a YouTube channel/website where I produce videos about different destinations showcasing food travel, attractions, just different places that are off the beaten path.

I didn’t want to dive into the big cities like Paris, London, Madrid, that everybody does. I wanted to discover way deeper, and showcasing these more uncommon destinations so people can be inspired to go there.

I made a business plan and raised money back then. When I graduated, I took off and travelled for  around two years full time with a cameraman and assistant travelling the 22 countries. We created like 500 episodes, and I ran out of money.

I had to sort of figure out how to how to keep my my dream alive and make this actual profitable business. The hardest thing back then was how to monetize with YouTube. The monetization options were nothing compared to where it is today. Sponsorships were impossible. This way before influencers were a thing. I came home, and spent about a year trying to figure out different products and how to make this work.

Then in 2017, I started travel blogging with the filming technology we have today. 2017 is when you can actually start filming yourself, making a real movie without the boom mic, assistant, cameraman etc, You are able to do everything yourself and that changed everything for me. So from 2017 to now, I’ve been focused 100% on growing my YouTube audience, and just diving into more and more destinations.

How do you choose where to go? You seem to be visiting some unique destinations which are not as known for tourism or food.

Pre-COVID the way I did it was I have the map of the world. And I see where I’ve been and where I haven’t been. And then I strategize. What’s going to be the best in terms of food and travel content? I used to get the board and see what haven’t I done? Where haven’t I been?

My main thing is, I don’t usually repeat a country again; unless it’s India because every state is very different, and the market is huge. I really want to keep exploring more countries diversify my audience because obviously, the more countries you visit and produce content on, the more your audience grows in these different areas.

How difficult it is to plan your trips? Do you have detailed plans on the content, or do you take the risk and find stuff randomly?

No random, I’m very organized. I do have two kids at home and have limited time. My trips are usually 2 weeks. I lose 2 days travelling, so I have full 12 days where I have to produce the content.

I would take roughly about a day to plan a day of the trip. I look for breakfast, lunch, dinner spots, and then sort of organize my day around that because I do mix travel content. I’m not doing purely food. That’s one thing I always try to explain to people is the way I create my content, is the way I would travel myself.

If I wasn’t filming, I still want to go eat something traditional. That’s my thing. I don’t care what country I’m in the world. I want to eat their food for breakfast. And then, I’ll go and see attractions, discover the history of the place. I’m a big trip planner. That’s what I did before I had my company. Even though the internet was like primitive back then I would do my research thoroughly.

I film two videos minimum a day. Sometimes, three on the best days. A typical schedule like 7 to 11, I got a bunch of stuff, food, breakfast with other things included. And then from 11 to around 4, it could be either street route or one place with lots of food and, we hit up a few different, interesting attractions.

The third one is the bonus, depending on how lively the place is. Sometimes I’ll film at night, jumping around different spots to eat. I always like food places and try to do a tour. Sometimes we get to explore the kitchen. It’s an amazing place and I can do a whole video about the people – maybe preparing the food or if it’s a famous chef. It really depends on the destination, but always minimum two videos, three is great.

Talk to us about the “document, don’t create” content strategy. 

I’ve even done four videos in a day where I do like that haircut video, that straight up for the views. I’m going to film it and make some content out of it. And it works sometimes in places like India. I did a video here in Miami, getting a haircut from my Barber, and it has 50,000 views today. It’s not really the finances but rather getting more people to see my face. If it turns out great. If it goes viral, great. If not, it’s out there. And it’s my legacy. I don’t really worry too much. 

My main goal is to get a million views a day.

I never really get to up or down about videos. If it goes viral. I feel great. But at the same time, you got to create more content and can’t worry about that one video that maybe didn’t do well. Each video can change your life in different ways indirectly. For example, some people would say my Albania series didn’t do very well in terms of views. But at the end of the day, I now have many Albania and Kosovo audience, and they love me. With that, I have a dozen cities where I can easily do Albanian content, and get people from there, which is which is really cool.

Your family don’t come along for filming trips, so how do you balance between family and work?

It’s not easy. For me, it’s very strange. People don’t get it, but I live one life when I’m travelling where it’s 100% the camera. She is my girlfriend and doesn’t leave me.

When I’m home, I have the post production and my kids. I usually plan to be on a two week trip every other month. That’s sort of my thing.

My kids usually wake up around 6:30. I drop them off at school between 8, 8:30. Then I am at the  office until around noon, before picking my younger daughter up. We go home for lunch and then pick up my elder daughter later. Usually before 4:30pm I’m home.

The perception for an entrepreneur is to work like forever. I definitely try to but I also give time to my kids. They’re young, they need me and especially when I’m traveling, they don’t have me. Sometimes I take them to either my parents’ house or the park to do something. And then by eight, they’re usually in bed. On some nights I continue doing work stuff, answering emails, thumbnails, and metadata, etc. Or me and my wife will watch a movie or just relax. That’s sort of how I do it.

I try to give my kids as much time as possible because I never want to feel like I missed out on their life, especially vice versa. I see how it is for them when I’m gone for like 14 days. I’ve done a big trip before around 22 days, when my oldest daughter was 2. Halfway through the trip, I wanted to go home because I miss my kids. I’m always thinking about them.

Every night I dedicate time for them no matter what. Before I go to sleep, I’m on FaceTime with them for an hour at least. They can talk to me and know I’m alive. I want them to always know I’m here, I want to be really part of their lives.

One thing about young kids is that you have to be completely there. Even if they see you on the phone, they already feel like you’re not there. So when I’m with them, I’m with them. When I’m not with them, I’m working and building a future for them.

As a travel content creator, do you feel like you can’t really enjoy your travels because you always have to think about capturing the moment, or creating content?

I actually feel like I don’t know how I would do it without the camera. It’s just me, as a filmmaker, photographer, I really enjoyed capturing moments. I guess after doing it so long, I never had somebody asked me “how do you enjoy it?” I’m always filming anyway.

And without the filming, I don’t get the trip, so I never complain about that. Without I work, I don’t get to see this and experience this food and get to tell about it. I actually miss something when I don’t have the camera. I’m just very grateful that I can do it, that God gave me the ability to do it, and that I can keep doing it.

During these times, most people I know are not travelling. Some people can’t even move from their country. I’m very fortunate, we’re wide open here in Florida. I would never, ever complain about having to do more work. I always want to be the most hardworking person in any room. Wherever I am, I’m the one that’s grinding. People recognize that and they respect me more because of it.

You started YouTube many years ago, and your content has evolved along the way to the travel food niche today. Talk to us about this transformation.

With the evolution of technology, everything got a little easier. But I think the biggest thing for me was being able to do the filming yourself.

Once I started releasing more videos, where it was like titles about food or thumbnails about food, the viewership started skyrocketing. That was when I knew like food is an attractive topic. E.g. I can film an awesome day with richest man in the world but it will not do as well as eating food with the richest man in the world.

It just changes the way people think about it. And food has always been part of my experience of life. I used to separate videos way more, but now two videos a day, minimum , and food is always a part of it,

It’s always a mix of the destination with food. This is how I think about travel. That is always the first thing to have any conversation of travel destinations. Where and what should I eat? My niche is really independent travel. I’m a solo traveler. I organize it myself. But food obviously became bigger.

Are there any reasons that food worked for you but might not work for other content creators?

I think knowledge is a big thing. I was never a chef but I try so many different cuisines. I’ve tried over 1000 dishes because I eat like 10 or 15 a day. Besides being knowledgeable about food, it’s really about enjoying it. I’ve eaten better on the streets of freaking I don’t even know than in my own backyard. I’m a real foodie. I limit myself when I’m not filming to maintain my weight but I enjoy everything.

I have no limit with food, except I don’t eat anything that is still alive. I just want to try and see why, why is this thing famous here? There’s a reason for it.

Why do people like it? Let me try it.

Why not? And if I don’t like it, I say, it’s not for me. I would never bash something. That’s one thing I want to always say, you should never push negativity in any way.

What’s the weirdest food that you have ever eaten?

The recent weirdest when I was in Ghana. It’s been a while since I’ve been in Africa. The weirdest thing I ate on the trip, was when we went to a palm tree farm. They cut it down and they extract the sap. They distill it and then make gin.

When opening the tree to extract the sap, there are worms. They get it all out and put them on a stick, then they roast it under barbecue. It was weird because they look like super nasty, bad gooey worms. But once they’re cooked, it’s just crispy. If no one told me, I would have thought it was a crispy piece of like pork skin or something.

Besides that I’ve eaten a lot of bugs, crickets. I’ve eaten turtle before, unfortunately. because I’m a big turtle person. It was like a delicacy stew in Colombia.

How do you see the transition of YouTube from how it was 10 years ago to today?

Way more competition for sure. But again, I think we are just starting. Streaming services like Netflix, Disney+, are all still in the primitive stage. Although YouTube has been around for like 16 years, I still believe that it’s going to expand so much more.

Everyone I know watch YouTube, Netflix and Disney+ on their TV. If they don’t have TV anymore, they watch it on their phone. That is the biggest shift

People are just going on to the YouTube app, searching or getting recommendations. Then they let it run. I think there’s way more competition, but I still think it’s a lot of opportunity to grow, just depends on what your niche is.

I think the biggest thing is about personality, quantity of content. The more content, the better for you. The more you will grow the more eyeballs, more numbers, more finances, etc. You have to release as much quality content as possible. My current stage is that I release every other day. And my goal is that by the end of the year, I can get to a point where I can release something every day.

That having another full time guy just cranking out the content. Basically grind all day like I do to be able to release the stuff we’re releasing every day. I already had two channels, and looking to start a few more. It’s all repurposed material for more evergreen content.

Tell us more about your monetization model.

My main bread and butter used to be sponsorships, it was the one that would pay the most.

Two years ago, I know how much I spend a month between my rent and life insurance etc. I wanted to get to a point where I can make that much via video views. That was my main goal and I got there.

Once I got there, the next thing was how do I double or triple this? The only way to double or triple is to double down on the videos that make you the most money and already gained the most virality. I want the views to cover my life. Everything else is all extra.

I never want to depend solely on sponsors, coz they’re not always easy to work with. I know some YouTubers that only do sponsor stuff but it’s like, then why would anybody follow you? You’re not organic. 99.9% of my stuff is me. I wanted to film it, that’s why the content exists.

For me, the breakdown is like views and sponsorships. Sponsorship could be two forms, it could be the product or it could be production of content for a specific location. There is also affiliate links which are mainly on my website.

This is a long game. You need to release near 100 episodes straight before you make $1. Videos have to be of quality, but again also quantity. This channel that I just started, we’re at 700 subscribers and we still need like 3500 hours to get monetized. And I already know I’m not getting monetize my channel for at least 90 more days unless a few videos go viral.

Just keep putting it out there. A lot of people get confused with the monetization of YouTube, over how much it pays? I know people who have only about 1000 or 2000 subscribers, but they have an E book and all those people that are subscribed to them are actually buying that. For them the real money is through the product not the views, so it depends.

Apart from YouTube, how do you use social media and website to complement like your main YouTube channel?

For me, it’s like, what’s this trip about and what am I doing. With the video content, we also create articles. On my website, I usually create an article per destination, whatever I actually spent time doing there.  The videos is how my ghost writer puts together articles. I’m always looking at evergreen titles where people are still searching for in 10 years. And it’s never a list that’s completely copied from trip advisor because it’s really the stuff that I did when I was there.

And then Instagram, I post my life and random stuff. I play around with IG TV and reels, but I’m always there. I try never to like completely disappear. I need to talk to my audience daily, or they just forget about you.

What would be your best tip for YouTubers if they want to pursue like a long lasting career in filmmaking?

First thing is, no one should ever believe they can have online success overnight. You have to build this. Don’t worry what anybody else thinks. The hardest thing is the circle around you, your parents, brothers, sister, your friends, everybody who’s gonna tell you it can’t be done. It can always be done. It does not matter what they think, it can be done if you switch it in your head that it will be done.

For YouTube specifically. or anything you do, try to have a real focus. There’s niches in travel, what do you focus on, what are you’re going to be telling, what are you doing? Try to have a sort of a clear vision on what it is that you do. For me it’s independent travel with food.

And then know it’s a long game. This is not an overnight thing. A lot of patience is involved here. Things will happen as you keep creating. That’s how this works. The longer you do it, the more you grow, internally as a person, but also outside.

I don’t really care too much about numbers anymore. Obviously you want that million views, you want that next thing but it’s more about enjoying what you do.

One more thing. For people that want to get into YouTube and have a full time job or another business, the main thing is that you have to carve out the time to make this happen. You might have kids, you’ll have a full time job. At night, on the weekends, whenever you can, you have to make the extra effort to make these videos so you can actually move forward.

Videos are a lot of work to make, it’s like a motion picture. It’s not going to be as efficient. The efficiency is knocking it out five pieces a day, via documenting. It can be just you talking and recording. Any piece of content can blow up, you can’t really worry about every video getting a million views. You have to worry about just getting it out there. And hopefully it works. If it doesn’t work, next one.