Lars and Shelley shows how you can pursue your dreams on the road as Middle Age Travelers. In this episode, the couple from LifeJourney4Two shares how they just came to the decision to go for that nomadic travel lifestyle one afternoon. 9 months later, they sold all their stuff and went on the adventure of a lifetime. Having been traveling through Europe on a Motor Van, and exploring Africa on a Camper Van, Lars and Shelley explains the differences between the two types of vehicles, along with incredible travel stories. Get insightful tips about starting and living the van life, as well as taking a positive mindset towards life.

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The following is an extremely summarized version extracted from the transcript of the full conversation. I strongly recommend listening to the podcast for all the valuable insights. You will also hear more detailed and contextualized stories from the guest(s), as well as pointers from me in a two-way conversation.

Let’s start with an introduction! Tell us about you and your background story.

Shelly – I’m Shelly, and this is Lars; and we decided to start our travels in 2017. So we sat down one afternoon and thought about our hopes and dreams for the future. We started writing things down. We realized that everything on our bucket list was related to travel. So we thought, why wait? Let’s just do it. We saved like crazy for about nine months. We both gave up our jobs. I was a teacher, and Lars was a health and safety manager. And that’s where it started. We only thought we’d go for about a year because we thought funds would run out. But once we were about six, seven months into the trip, we realized the funds were going a lot further than we expected because we’re pretty frugal. We were in a motorhome, so we cooked all our food and didn’t pay for accommodation. Then we found something called Trusted House Sitters, where you can stay in people’s houses for free and look after their pets. They’re all over the world. So we could stretch it out a lot longer. Then we started the travel blog because we couldn’t find things that we wanted to know while traveling, especially as older, mature travelers. So here we are, four years on and no end in sight. Lars is working at the minute with his old company, which is perfect because of COVID. We were in Africa when we went into lockdown.

What preparations did you make in the 6 to 9 months before you started traveling?

Lars – We had to knuckle down and do some savings. So we decided not to burden yourselves with things and sold everything. We minimized what we had and got it down to two check-in bags and two hand-carry bags. So for the last four years, that’s how we’ve been traveling.

Shelly – The hardest part of the process was deciding what to get rid of.

Lars – I’m pretty attached to my chainsaw, which I couldn’t let go of, but it’s back in Australia. It’s more along the lines of the photography equipment and electronic media that we need when on the road to keep up with communications and capture and store photos; that is our precious stuff. We bought a four-wheel drive in Africa that is still out there at the moment. So after I finished work here in Norway, we will return to Africa and continue our travels.

Did you have a target amount to save before you set off on the trip?

Shelly – No, it was to save as much as we could. We don’t spend much anyway, so we cut down and sold everything. One of the hardest things was deciding what to do with jewelry I had inherited from my Mom and Nana. They held memories, but they were too small for me to wear. They were sitting in a box. So I sold them to remember them as they contributed to our trip, except for one ring that I kept.

Do you think the new generation is switching from materialistic possessions to creating memories?

Shelly – There’s not been one day where we doubted what we’ve done. People thought we were crazy at the time, and some people still do, or they think we are lucky, but there’s no luck involved. I think a lot of travel is a choice.

Lars – We’ve often said to people you don’t have to commit to a year-long journey; you can just bite off a little bit, see if it’s for you. You don’t know till you try; for us, it’s worked out great. We come to Norway every year, I do some contract work, and then we go back to whichever part of the world we’re traveling through at that time. It’s great. But you need a break from traveling; you do get travel weary. We do anyway, just being on the move all the time. You need to stay in a place and have a base for a while.

Tell us some of your house sitting experiences in France and South Africa.

Shelly – It was when we started to work on the travel blog. It had always been on my bucket list was to live in France and speak French, so that’s what we did. We lived in a beautiful Carriage House beside the Chateau. We had three beautiful cats, seven sheep, and eight chickens, which kept us busy. It was just beautiful, walking in the countryside and immersing ourselves in the small village. We got a feel of what it was like to live in France, and we got to know the different kinds of people there. It was still traveling but at a much slower pace.

Lars – We come to Norway for many months of the year, and house sitting has provided great opportunities. We spent seven months in South Africa; our home was near a desert for five months during the lockdown. The other two months were Kruger National Park.

Shelly – I think we were supposed to do six weeks in a house, then South Africa went into a massive lockdown. The people we were sitting for couldn’t get back, so we ended up staying in their house for five months. They had been in their holiday home, which is in a bush camp beside Kruger. We were able to apply for something from the police to change residents. So we swapped and went to the bush camp, which was the most extraordinary experience.

Lars – There were two of us in the camp with no one for miles, so that couldn’t have been a better situation for us.

Shelly – There were no fences, apart from elephant fences. We had hyenas coming through and came face to face with a leopard, which was pretty scary. There was a couple of rhinos wandering by; it was incredible. We realized we’re not city people. We were definitely out in the bush and nature people, and we love to photograph where we live. It makes me happy, which is the whole point.

Why did you choose a camper van lifestyle instead of another form of travel?

Lars – When we first left Australia, our first year of travel was in a motorhome/camper van. We decided to give us the flexibility to go where we wanted and when we wanted and be more careful with our money. We had the initial outlay for the cost of hiring the camper; then, we could manage all our expenses. It worked out great for us. We can stay longer in countries when we want; we have total control over what we do. It’s complete freedom. It was the first step into longer-term travel. Motorhomes are all kitted out, they’ve got showers, cooking facilities, and it’s a small home on wheels. We’ve got a taste traveling around doing our own thing.

Shelly – But Africa is different; you must stick to all the main roads in a motorhome. We knew that we wanted to go off on the tracks that aren’t so well-traveled, which is why we bought the four-wheel drive with the tent on top. You can get different types; some you have to climb outside to get into the tent on top, whereas you can get in from inside in ours. As you climb in the back, it lifts, and that makes it a little bit nicer.

How much did it cost you per day to travel in a motorhome?

Shelly – I can’t remember, I’ve broken it down, but I can’t remember off the top of my head.

Lars – We couldn’t buy, for the price you pay for a 20-year-old vehicle, we decided it wasn’t worth the money because then you have to sell it afterward. Plus, a 20-year-old vehicle has potential problems. So we rented, it was fast, free and enjoyable travel for the first year.

Shelly – I’ve previously been on a trip and bought a motor home. And it needed a new engine; it ended up costing a lot of money. We didn’t want that stress. We wanted to have a new model, which would have been expensive to buy. That’s why we decided to go that route. Halfway through, we looked at buying one when we thought we would be traveling for a lot longer, but it just was too difficult. So we bought a car and road tripped in France for 18 months as our motorhome fell through. We slept in the car. It was our motor home for a while.

Lars – In 2018, we road-tripped from Southern Norway to the fjords on the West Coast and up to the Lofoten. We spent a few weeks doing that in the great weather.

Shelly – Norway is not as expensive as everyone says. Japan is more costly, and Switzerland was outrageous. I think the accommodation here in Norway is expensive, but the food isn’t too pricey.

Lars – We have to be careful what we buy. As a traveler, you check the price out on everything and think, do we need it? In any country, you gauge the cost of things and decide if you want to buy them.

Shelly – When we were in Iceland, the food was incredibly expensive. That’s why we hired a car, and we stayed in b&bs where we always had breakfast. We’d get our breakfast and then make cheese and ham sandwiches; we ate during the day.

What are some of the challenges that you faced during your motorhome travels?

Lars – Coming from Australia, we drove a car on the left-hand side of the road. When we started traveling in Europe, we had to get used to driving on the right-hand side and in an eight-meter long camper. We had a two-hour handover from the Depo, where we picked up the motorhome, and they very quickly ran through everything. We were so used to driving on the left-hand side; we had to reboot the habits we had learned many years ago. It was a bit hectic for the first week, but it got a lot better after that.

Shelly – I thought one of the challenges would be us together in such a small space 24/7, but it wasn’t at all.

Lars – I guess because we’re out all the time unless we are writing. We don’t lounge around in the camper van or our Bush camper. We’re out doing things, and I think that’s the difference. When we come back, there are always things to do and prepare for the next day.

Shelly – I think one of the worst things is rain. I hate it when it’s raining. When we have the motorhome, it is OK because you snuggle up and have everything we need. But, with the bush camper when it’s rainy, it’s not much fun. You are outside most of the time. So we have got an awning that we put around, but still, I don’t like it when it’s raining.

Lars – One of the other challenges in Europe was every country has a different language. We tried to learn a few words, the courtesies; it always goes a long way, and we got pretty sharp with our sign language. Filling up gas bottles was difficult because each country has a different adapter to fill the portable gas bottles that you need for cooking. So that was a bit of a learning curve for us as well. In Australia, everything is standardized. In Europe, they seem to have a common standard but with their own minor individual type. So understanding all of the rules and regulations, but we didn’t find any negative rules during our travels.

Shelly – I love the van life, that freedom of being out there and part of everything. The little van we’ve got now is luxury because we don’t have the ladder on the outside, and the tent pops up. We always look at the good side of what we’ve got.

Did you find it challenging when traveling through Eastern Europe?

Shelly – I remember wild camping, possibly in Serbia. Someone in a car pulled up at about one o’clock in the morning and kept the engine running. We’re in the middle of nowhere. I did worry then, but nothing happened; they just drove away. But we found these countries the most friendly of all Europe. The people there were nice it wasn’t scary at all.

Lars – I think we go on a gut feeling when we travel. If it doesn’t feel good, we just keep moving on. It’s not as polished as some Western European countries; it doesn’t have the necessary infrastructure. But I think a lot of Eastern European countries are pretty safe to travel to these days. I don’t think there are too many issues.

Shelly – I still got a lot to write about there. But as you know, when you’re blogging, you need to SEO and how many people are likely to want to read it. People want to read about France, Portugal, and Spain, rather than Albania or Serbia, but they’re on my list. I’ve just done a schedule of which posts to write each week, and they’re still on my schedule. We had a particularly moving experience in Serbia, where we had heard about this tiny little chapel that had bones in it. We didn’t know much about it, and it looked like it was all closed up. We were just about to walk away, and I tried the handle. Then somebody opened it from the inside.

Lars – It was this Captain, well, people in military uniforms surrounded by skulls. They were having a closed ceremony, and they broke into song.

Shelly – They invited us to come in.

Lars – We thought we were intruding and should back away. But they said to come in, and then they broke into song.

Shelly – It’s a tiny place, and it echoed. Everyone was around the skulls in the middle. It was incredible to write about the many things that happened.

Lars – I don’t think you get the same populace you do in Western Europe. That, for us, is refreshing. It’s a bit more random and a bit wilder, and that’s what we like.

Shelly – We did a free walking tour in Sarajevo. The guy who did it told us all the stories about how they taught in the basement of their apartments. One of the people who lived in the apartments was a teacher, so she would take them all down and then how they’d run to get the water. I think all three of those countries had stories; they all told about the oppression they’ve been under and things they’ve learned under the communist system. It was so interesting to hear their stories.

Lars – I think it just makes you stop, listen, and absorb because it’s first-hand information.

Shelly – It’s hard to believe that kind of thing was happening in their lifetime. It’s still so fresh in so many of their memories.

Did your motorhomes ever break down?

Lars – No, nothing really serious of that nature with the van. The rental had full breakdown service, but we did not have any dramas at all. We didn’t need to put the car or van in for service or anything like that. So not many stories to tell on that front. A couple of times, we hit the crash barriers and had some panel damage.

Shelly – Luckily we had travel insurance, and our insurance company paid the excess both times.

Would you recommend people who are starting to rent a van and get proper coverage?

Lars – Definitely try a short-term trip; maybe try it for a weekend to see if it’s for you or not. Some people find they don’t like to drive around and live in that confined space. For others, it’s lovely, so have a taste of it first. Then go from there before you commit to a long trip where you find that this was not a good decision.

Shelly – We met loads of people who had these fancy motorhomes but never used their toilet. We find it interesting that people travel for months and never use their toilets and not for number two’s.

Lars – It’s not difficult to clean, you just open the lid up, pour it out, and put the lid back on. That’s the whole idea of having a motor home, to be mobile and off the grid. But many people stay in a camping site with all the facilities to choose not to have to empty it and use the onsite toilets.

Are there places whereby it’s illegal to wild camp?

Shelly – It depends; country by country is different. I think more countries are saying that wild camping is not legal. In most of Europe, we were able to wild camp. We wild camped a lot in Greece, around the Peloponnese, on beaches and the beach, and that was fantastic.

Lars – We also used an app called Camper Contact that gives information on paid campsites and places where you can wild camp, and people can provide feedback on this app. So that was a beneficial resource for us to plan where we would stay the next night. Sometimes we needed a site with power to use the facilities. But a lot of the time, we chose to go to these wild and free camping places.

Shelly – In South Africa, you’re not allowed to wild camp, but many campsites are pretty basic anyway. We have our bucket and a little stool now, rather than a toilet.

What factors do you consider when you’re determining where to go next?

Lars – It’s a quick, where do you want to go next? For example, after we finish Africa in a few years, I think we want to head to the US and Canada because there’s some incredible scenery. So we have a general view, and once we get closer, we start the planning. More time goes into the planning for us than the actual trip itself. But some people might choose to do it differently. But for me, you have to plan for everything and what might happen. That ensures you’re going to have the best time you can and without mishaps. Also, if you’re spending your money wherever you go, you want to know that you’re spending it on the right stuff. So planning is super important.

Shelly – I think in Africa, the practicalities, rather than what do we want to see? We look at what we want to see and the scenery, but we ask the locals what we should see when we get there. So a lot of the beforehand planning is talking about the practicalities. Do we need extra insurance when we get into that country? What do we need to get into that country? What will we do if we break down in that country? Because we’re not in a group of people traveling, it’s just the two of us.

Lars – So when something happens, what do we do? We ask ourselves that question all the time. So there is a lot of thinking in the background. But once we’re there, we’re there; we enjoy it. We go with our gut feeling, and if it doesn’t feel right, we’ll just keep moving. Don’t ignore your gut feeling.

I assume there’s no timeline to this?

Shelly – We didn’t want to be on a timeframe. We wanted to stop and go and not think we need to do this or that. We wanted to know that we could keep going as long or as short as we wanted to.

Lars – That’s why we talked about years because we’re going to need that amount of time not to rush it and enjoy the experience. It takes the time it takes once you own a vehicle. That’s the significant outlay financially, and then it’s just a matter of just enjoying it.

Were you able to adjust the motorhome rental as your trip progressed?

Lars – We took it initially for five months, but that was because we’re from Australia; I worked out how many kilometers we were to drive. I messed it up because I thought we’d zip around Europe in three to four months. We had no chance; what we thought was five months, we needed to double that at least.

Shelly – We also realized there were different designs of motorhomes, and we preferred a different design. We were able to swap to varying models during our trips by renting from other companies.

What are the differences between the different models?

Shelly –There were a couple of things. One, the first bed we had to climb up onto wasn’t comfy.

Lars – The first motorhome was a baseline version, and so after a while, you can work out what works for you and what doesn’t work for you. We had that vehicle for five months. The second one we took from a different provider, we had for seven months. They upgraded it for us as well, so we had a bit of luxury. I didn’t notice too much at all. Somethings you like, somethings you don’t like, and you only know that once you experience it for some time, then you know what to look for in the next camper van. You can be specific about what you want. So take the camper van for a weekend or a week to get a baseline of what will work.

What are some other things that you might find a hassle traveling in a motorhome?

Lars – It’s a different setup.

Shelly – When you’re outside under the canopy because you can’t relax in the evening, so sit inside. But you can’t do that because there’s nowhere to put your cup of tea or anything. So when you’re inside, you’re inside.

Lars – You do have the option to sit outside, but it’s just as comfortable to sit inside. But if you want to lounge around, you have to go out, put out your chairs, and it’s outside living. So, it’s not a challenge, but it’s just different. So, I guess it depends where you’d like to draw the line for your comfort. For us, it’s great fun. The big thing is we’re amongst the animals; you can’t hear the noises and sounds from inside the vehicle. You need to see, hear, smell; it all stimulates the senses.

How did you manage WiFi for work?

Shelly – WiFi was difficult in South Africa.

Lars – We had a real issue getting a SIM card; they don’t have them in Europe. When we arrived, we had no communications. We had to rely on free WiFi in cafes for the first month, Then later on in Belgium, you just show your driver’s license and passport, and we got two SIM cards in the Orange network. That was great all over Europe, but it was a real hassle for us for many months. In most countries, through Europe, they just said no, if you don’t have residency, and that was it. When traveling, you cannot be disconnected. You may need to receive security updates or quickly check something when you’re traveling, so it’s necessary. I think you’ll find most travelers will have the same story. You don’t want to spend hours uploading your photos. You just have to be careful in how you use your gigabytes.

How do you cope with seasonal weather changes?

Lars – We don’t mind. We go with the flow. We don’t drive for better weather. It’s what’s happening in that season. For example, it could be wildflowers over here; it could be a migration there. That defines how we pick where we’re going. If it’s lovely weather, it helps too, but it’s secondary. When it’s cold, we have sleeping bags and extra blankets. We are willing to make sacrifices for the experiences we’re having, and for us, it’s a small sacrifice.

Is there anything you find different as mature travelers?

Lars – We find that people seem to have more time to talk with us and vice versa. We’re not in a hurry. We find people our age, maybe a little bit older as well, tend to take the time to talk a bit more.

Shelly – The good thing is we are still pretty fit. When we traveled Europe, many of the motorhome crowd were older than us; we felt young. I think it’s great that we’re doing it now and we haven’t waited. A lot of people wait until they’ve retired and they haven’t got the energy or fitness of health to be doing what we’re doing.

Lars – When we had our campaign in Europe, we had a couple of bikes with us. We had a bike rack on the back of the camper. Instead of driving through towns or cities, we’d take our bikes. Then we didn’t have to contend with traffic and parking, and we got the fitness benefit. It gave us more options.

When you decided to make the trip, were you in a retirement mentality?

Lars – The idea was we allocated X amount of dollars for the initial travel, and we said at the end of that, we will just stop traveling, go back and do some more work. As it turned out, I work for my old company; we travel, then I fly to Norway, we have a break from the travel, build up our travel funds, and then we continue what we’re doing. So we’ve changed the initial plan, whereas we thought we would wait until our money ran out to perpetually topping up through the year. That’s enough to keep us going. So do we have an end date or year in sight? No, it’s more what do we want to see next and when do we want to see it? I’ll tell you what, traveling is a lot more fun than working.

Shelly – We weren’t thinking of retiring or thinking we would be working till 65 or 70. So we didn’t talk about it. My boys would be doing their things, and now with technology, I don’t miss them because we’ve got FaceTime, and we message on messenger. I can see all three of them at the same time. I get more out of them than I ever have done at home. I get a lot more information from them. They’re proud of what we’re doing as well. It’s role modeling what they can do at any time. Occasionally, you want to be able to hug one if they are upset; that’s the only thing I’ve missed. It’s so different nowadays.

What are some of the tips that you would give for someone looking to do van life?

Shelly – I think the main thing is to have that positive and don’t think about it too much. Just decide and go through it. I mean, what can go wrong? The worst-case scenario is you end up going home.

Lars – I think if you’re going to start it, follow some of the well-trodden roads, keep things easy. Then once you build up your confidence a bit, go down the less-traveled roads. I think you’ve got to be a bit streetwise and comfortable with what you’re doing and have a bit of confidence in yourself and what’s around you. Then, do your thing, whatever that might be.

Shelly – Life will be shit sometimes, but you get through, and you build resilience. That’s where you learn, and the same with travel, any travel. It’s never going to be roses all the time; you’re going to learn that. You’re going to learn more about yourself. You’ll learn more about what you like. For example, I’m 54 now; when we started traveling, I was 49-50, and I never realized how much I loved nature and wildlife. When you immerse yourself and you go out there, life catches you up. Follow whatever you want to do, whether it’s travel, paint, or whatever, just do it. Think about it, go out and experience lots of different things. There are never any wrong choices. There is always the potential to change.

Lars – Make a decision and do it. Then if it doesn’t work, you’ve learned that it’s not your path; choose another one. There’s a lot of planning behind the scenes; it’s not just stepping out one blindly. Make a choice. Stick with it. If it doesn’t work, close the door, then the next one opens. So opportunity after opportunity awaits.

Life is journey of constant changes, growth and learning. In this episode, Thilini shares her story on how she recover from past mistakes to building a professional career, and ultimately exchanging a lucrative pay check for the freedom to travel around the world. We chat about the mindset of riding the wave of life, and also things to consider when leaving a well paid job for a nomadic travel life. 

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The following is an extremely summarized version extracted from the transcript of the full conversation. I strongly recommend listening to the podcast for all the valuable insights. You will also hear more detailed and contextualized stories from the guest(s), as well as pointers from me in a two-way conversation.

Hi Thilini! Please give an introduction of yourself.

I’m originally from Sri Lanka, where I grew up, study and started my financial career. I had a challenging childhood and youth, including losing both my parents. Eventually, my financial career became somewhat lucrative, but I had several problems in my personal life. So then, I emigrated to Australia through the skilled immigration program and continued my financial career in different roles. Finally, somewhere around 2018, I felt like I wanted to see and do more in life. So, when my partner was living in Texas, we decided to put our full-time jobs behind us and go traveling and use Mexico as a base. So that’s how it started.

What triggered your wanderlust, and gave you the courage to travel?

As I mentioned, I’ve faced challenges since early on in my life. So, I understood that life is fragile and finite; if you want something, you’ve got to go for it. I didn’t grow up traveling; I started as an adult. I made my first overseas trip when I was 21. I did travel a bit in Sri Lanka when my career became lucrative. But it was after I moved to Australia that I started traveling extensively. In Australia, we have a little more annual leave, but vacation days still limited us; sometimes, I had to take no pay. I talked to my partner; we have reached a stage where we were financially stable; we had no other obligations. We thought 50 years from now are we going to regret doing it or not doing it?

Did you plan to travel around the world, visit specific continents, or be free and easy?

What we thought was not to Nomad, fully, we wanted to use a base. We picked Mexico as a base because my partner was born there. It was also relatively easy for me to get a temporary residency. After we moved to Mexico, we started with South America and Central America and then we went to Europe.  Before we gave up that base, we also explored locally and just traveled for a couple of months. Then we came back and completed a road trip across the country towards the Yucatan Peninsula, where we stayed. Then the pandemic hit.

How did you meet your partner and what’s your secret tip for maintaining a long-distance relationship?

We first met online, not through a dating site, but something else. Then we met in person and realized we were on the same page. We did have a long-distance relationship; it’s the longest possible distance you can imagine.

At the time, we both had full-time jobs, so we had a permanent base. The funny part was the time difference between Sydney and Texas; one person had to stay up late and sacrifice sleep, so you can’t talk all the time. You have a specific time in the evening or morning, plus some short calls in between. You need to have other interests because if your whole life revolves around the relationship, it can be challenging. You’ve got to have your hobbies, independence, and friends. I think it’s a balance between the two, and I think what’s most important is you need an end date. That means you can’t do long-distance forever.

How did you transit from a gap year for full-time travel to embracing a long-term nomadic lifestyle?

Firstly, we planned to take a year or two off, travel, and possibly go back to work. After about a year of traveling, we decided that we liked the flexibility and freedom, so we thought about what we could do using our skills. For the following few months, I had some anxiety, and I was struggling a little bit. So, I thought about my hobbies and focused on those things; that’s how we started. It’s great we get to do what we love and travel.

If your initial plan was to take a gap year and travel freely, why did you feel the need to have a base?

We had a moving base. The reason was that I didn’t want to get exhausted from traveling constantly and having to carry luggage or backpacks throughout. I was curious about Mexico; the lifestyle intrigued me; I wanted to explore the locality, learn Spanish, volunteer, and do community work. I thought it would be helpful to have a base, and Mexico worked perfectly because of its geographic location. The plan turned to be more location-independent work and less of a digital nomad. Location-independent means we don’t have to travel; we can travel if you want to.

How did your family and friends respond to your lifestyle change?

I had seen others do it before me. My colleagues and friends in Australia thought it was a great idea. My bosses wished they could do it too, but they couldn’t because of their work commitments. So, there were a couple of concerned people; sometimes, I think the concern is genuine. But generally speaking, I think the response was positive. There were some opinions, but I learned very young not to care too much about other people. Life’s too short. I had an older colleague who told me this before I left that opportunities come in small windows; you got to take them before they’re gone. Don’t miss it; one or two years is a short time considering the human lifespan, so just go.

Did you have a pre-plan budget in mind before leaving?

Roughly, but nothing specific. We thought we had enough money not to work for two years or even a little more. Mexico is a low-cost location, so the money goes further. We didn’t have a strict budget, but we were careful. We didn’t go to expensive restaurants and splash our cash. Instead, we stayed in mid-range hotels instead of backpacker hostels. A couple of times, we rented cars when we traveled, and in Mexico, we went on road trips. We prioritized how to spend money based on our likings and requirements.

What is your typical travel style?

When we were on the Pacific Coast, we made short trips of two to three weeks. Then we left that base and traveled for two months. Then we came back, and we went on a shorter trip to Cuba and Belize.

Have you found the pandemic a good opportunity to start writing?

So, I used just to write; I have some financial background and technical knowledge; maybe I could start writing. So, I offered my services directly to a few people and got started like that. Now, I am working on a couple of other ideas. So, it was a hobby that I was able to monetize.

Has the pandemic allowed you to pursue your passions?

Yes, exactly, that is precisely the point because we were caught up in our daily lives. Ideally, it would be best if you got started in your business before you quit your job. That is the ideal way, the less risky way, but for me, I was too entangled in daily life that I would never have got around to it.

I wanted to travel, and I wanted to become an entrepreneur. Then I lost the only family member I had early on, and things were not possible. So, I put my dreams on hold and continued working and sorting other personal issues. It went from one thing to another to another. The more you progress in your career, the harder it gets to leave, to quit. My dreams and all those fun things were falling behind.

Was the financial industry a busy and competitive lifestyle?

When I was younger, I used to have long hauls and very stressful jobs early on in my career. But later in my career, it was comfortable and not too stressful. Maybe I was getting a bit bored or not living the best life I could. I was thinking about working for 35 more years and then retiring. What if I had done something else?

Do you think your real passion was always in writing?

I do, definitely. I am entrepreneurial; I am working on many other things, and I’ve always had that mindset. I studied commerce in school and enjoyed it. I do like financial markets and trading and watching financial instruments fluctuate; that was fun. But, on the other hand, I think I was not too fond of the nine-to-five structure, lacking flexibility. There are still so many rules and regulations; you can’t just go off work; it doesn’t work. But, on the other hand, when you’re doing location-independent work, you can take your laptop and go and work anywhere.

Can you talk to us about some of your past experiences?

I was just young and dumb, and I should handle things better. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, I would tell my younger self I should have done X Y Z, but at the time, I didn’t have that capacity. It is a very stressful time because I was living in Sri Lanka, and my earnings were far less than in Sydney, and it was a much weaker currency. It taught me many things starting from handling stress, but it also highlighted more anxiety. Finally, I realized that I couldn’t continue the same way, I had to make some changes, and I had to get out of it. I wasn’t planning on spending the next 20 years getting out of debt; it had to happen quickly. So I restructured some debt, restructured the expensive ones. Before leaving, I was able to sell my car and pay off some of my debt. When I went to Sydney, I was employed relatively quickly. I did have to make sacrifices. Even though I was earning enough, I learned to live with flatmates. I learned how to allocate money to do what I like. I liked to travel, so travel was something I splashed on. At every stage of our life, we make our decisions based on our information and understanding. It’s sometimes not fair for us to look back later and judge ourselves, saying we should have done X, Y, Z. You’re not in the same situation anymore.

Do you think your growth mindset made it easy for you to transition out of your job to a nomadic lifestyle?

There’s always a way. As humans, we can underestimate our potential and abilities. Some people tell me they want to do this or wish they could do it. So, if you want to do it, and for whatever reasons it’s not possible, then take steps towards it. What do you wish to be doing ten years from now? There’s no point wishing; life just flows. The worst is worrying about finding another job or something else. But you can always find a way. It’s not as courageous or as risky as it sounds, especially today. As we live in an online world, there are so many opportunities. If you can get creative, you can always do something and make money. Still, time, opportunities, and experiences may not come again. The real risk is not taking those chances or those experiences. Also, the stresses of risk and change can come whether you like it or not. The pandemic caused many things to change. Many of those so-called steady jobs became unsteady, and many things happened, and people have to adjust to them as they had no choice. Sometimes, we rise to the occasion only when we are in difficult situations.

Has the pandemic caused many businesses to close, and then new ones take their place in Mexico?

Yes, and also back home in the village I grew up. People who lost their jobs in factories making clothes are now stitching masks and doing other things to put food on the table. I think people back home have started understanding that things aren’t as stable as they thought, and anything can happen. We could be here today, and something could happen tomorrow. So, we have to live to the fullest and be joyful now and not wait for something to happen in the future. As a result, people have stopped to think about what really matters. Is it chasing money or spending time with your loved ones and doing what you love?

Have you noticed much difference moving from the financial industry work to the writing world?

I was working not in consulting but in investment analytics and funds management. The comfortable six-figure amount in Australian dollars and the transition for me now are what I used to feel anxious about. When you’re doing something creative, like writing, you have to focus. You have to learn how to handle distractions and how to focus on work. I won’t let money stress me because I think I’ll always figure it out, and sometimes those thoughts do occur. But I decided to keep going, and now I have to keep going and make it work. I have no regrets. I’ve done everything I wanted to do in life. I’ve learned to chill out with my writing and use simple language, and drop the big words I’m used to using. It’s a process; we know as we go every month, we get a bit better or improve or get quicker.

Has travel changed your perspective on how you see other cultures?

Yes, I learned so many things from traveling. One is that as humans, we are not as different as society has made us think. In every country you go to, people have the same complaints, wants, exact needs, and problems. So, in a way, I found it very endearing that we are so similar; it’s nice that you can connect with people. Media portrays things very differently from what you see in Mexico; I found it very eye-opening. I learned that people back home move on with their lives, and sometimes friends move on; it’s just life. I learned to appreciate every moment, especially nature; it makes you realize that you’re just a speck in this vast universe. So, what are all these problems and anxieties? I don’t mean to diminish the problems of the world; there are huge problems. But sometimes, we also tend to worry about ridiculous things that we shouldn’t. I think the pandemic made many people realize that you shouldn’t waste time on unseen things.

Do you feel that you miss out on things with your friends back home due to your new lifestyle?

Yes. I keep in touch with my friends, but there are time differences, and people are busy. They have their lives, jobs, and families. Sometimes people move on, and they don’t have the time to coordinate things. I also learned young to accept that phases of life end, and then you go to the next stage of life; that’s just how it is. There are many friends I miss. Maybe we’ll have more great times in the future, after the pandemic. But we used to have the best possible times together, and that’s what matters the most. It’s like a happy nostalgic memory while I also missed them. I think the same about my father, it would have been great if I had him more into my adulthood, but we had the time we had; that’s just how it is.

Did you consciously think that you were starting your next phase of life when you decided to quit your job and go on this trip?

I didn’t spend much time contemplating it because I was so busy trying to organize everything, which was a nightmare while working. I worked up to one or two days before I left, so there was a lot to do. I viewed it as the next step following many different episodes in my life.

I sold my car and goods; I didn’t want to put things in storage. I didn’t take much with me; I felt so free. I used to have a shopping problem, and I thought it would make me happy. But they weighed me down; the things I’d worked hard to buy were baggage. I packed myself into a few bags, and I suddenly felt so free; it was terrific.

What are your plans and are you going to stay in Mexico?

Right now, I think that’s our only choice; I was lucky to have got a temporary residency. I had thought about going to Sydney. But I just went ahead and got it, and thankfully, for now, I can continue to stay. I also have worker rights here because temporary residency doesn’t come with work rights. So now I’m free to do whatever I want. The plans are to travel domestically; we have traveled quite a bit locally. When things open up, we will start going overseas again. I prefer having a base and location-independent work to nomadic because it’s less tiring and gives a little stability.

I love it here; there’s so much to do, and there’s pretty much everything. The healthcare system is sound. I was able to learn Spanish; I would say I’m semi-fluent. It has worked for me; I haven’t had any safety incidents. There are areas in the country and states that are considered unsafe, but we haven’t personally had any incidents. I’m not saying bad things don’t happen; they do, but sometimes things get exaggerated in the media.

If people are looking to go into the lifestyle, what are some things you would recommend before quitting your job?

I’d say have a financial buffer. If you are thinking of going for a while, then make sure you have a budget. That way, you won’t get stressed when you’re getting started in your business or freelancing. You don’t have to worry about every dollar you have. Second, while working, I would say get started with your freelancing or your side business. I know sometimes there are compliance rules, and it’s not allowed depending on what it is. But if it is unrelated, it shouldn’t be a problem. That way, you can get a head start. And the third one, I think, is that planning and all that is good, but think about how you would feel when you’re years old. If you look back, will you believe I wish I did that, or I’m glad I stayed, but don’t live in limbo?

How do you prepare for a cycling trip around the world? Freelance writer and cycling enthusiast Zoe Ashbridge shares how she transitioned from an office job to a freelance writer during a mega cycling trip around the world. We chat about how travel by bike is different from regular travel, what are challenges along the way and tips to take note when planning for such a trip. We also discuss how to kickstart your freelance journey on Upwork and the mentality to go after the life you want. 

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The following is an extremely summarized version extracted from the transcript of the full conversation. I strongly recommend listening to the podcast for all the valuable insights. You will also hear more detailed and contextualized stories from the guest(s), as well as pointers from me in a two-way conversation.

Please give an introduction of yourself.

My name is Zoe, and I am a freelance writer. Last year, or even the year before, I left my house in England, and I cycled to Vietnam with my boyfriend. We rode about 13,000 miles over a year, roughly 20,000 kilometers. We were planning to cycle around the world, but the pandemic stopped that from happening. I think we were nine days over a year on the road; we got the next plane home. I had started to explore remote working and dabbling in writing blog posts for people. I had never really felt like remoting working was accessible to me. Still, I have learned since that it was, and it’s accessible to a lot of other people as well.

What was the initial route planned?

The initial route was to leave England and then cycle a complete circumnavigation around the world, and then come back to England, all by bicycle. It was a mega trip, but I hardly did any planning because my work was fantastic, and they did the whole lot. I followed obediently. The plan was to go south to Singapore, Australia, South Australia, and New Zealand from Vietnam. Then the goal was to go across the USA, Portugal, Spain, France and then back home to England.

What got you into cycling, and why did you choose cycling as a way to travel the world?

I always cycled before I met my boyfriend, Stewart. I would go out on my own. I have a terrible sense of direction; the fact that I’ve cycled to Vietnam is quite laughable if you know me very well. I would never be able to do anything like that on my own. I was a reasonably keen road cyclist, wasn’t particularly fast, but enjoyed getting on my bike and outdoors. Maybe a few years after cycling on my own, I was just at work, and the people I worked for employed a new developer. I met him, and we ended up getting involved romantically, and he cycled too. A month into our relationship, he said he was planning on quitting his job, and he asked me to leave mine and cycle around the world. I said, let’s do it, and then six months later, we both quit our jobs. They were terrific about it, supportive, and we are still on excellent terms. I never went back to freelancing.

What is your mindset when taking the leap of faith to quit your job and go cycle around the world?

I think I’m just not scared about taking risks. I think about calculated risks. I’m willing to think about what is the worst that could happen? I knew I would probably come back alive. If we broke up, I could get a plane home. Quitting your job can feel quite scary, but there are other jobs out there, especially if you’re willing to do anything. When I came back from the trip, I didn’t have a job, but I was happy to work in a supermarket and earn minimum wage for a while. I enjoyed it. So although it feels risky, I think it will just alter my life course for a little bit, but I don’t see anything wrong happening.

Did you have to plan a detailed cycling route, or did you just go with the flow?

A mix of the two. When my boyfriend planned the route, he planned the whole route strategically, turn by turn, the entire 24,000 miles, which took a long time. I have prepared a 100-mile walk previously, and it took me 10 hours. He wanted to have that management of the trip. When we got over there, we found that you don’t have to plan. The exceptions would be places like Kazakhstan and a little bit of Azerbaijan. We would have to prepare parts of that trip because we needed to know how much water we needed to carry and how much food we needed to take on our bikes. We had to have enough water on our bicycles to last for two days so that we could cycle through the desert.

Do you carry around camping equipment?

We have pannier bags on our bicycles, and they hold camping equipment and first aid. We had our laptops; we had enough room for food and sleeping bags to be ultimately self-sufficient on the bikes. In the built-up areas, like England and France, most of Europe, my bike was approximately 35 kilos and Stuart’s probably 40. Then when we went to the desert, we carried water and extra food; my bike was 40 kilos, and Stuart’s was pushing towards 50 kilos. By the time you get to Kazakhstan, you’re fit; you’ve been cycling a hefty bike for six, seven months. So you don’t have to worry about that extra weight because you can do it.

How long was the whole journey supposed to be when you planned it?

I think we said 18 months. When we went from England to Italy, we knew it would take longer than 18 months. Even within those two countries, we knew that was a bit ambitious. So we added six months on and then reduced our daily budget to ensure that we could do that.

Was the delay due to the route or because you spontaneously decided to spend longer time in certain places?

It was a mixture of the two, to be honest. We weren’t quite making our goal of 65 miles a day, 100 kilometers a day, so that was one reason. The second reason was, we booked our accommodation for the first eight days in advance, and Stuart got injured on the way because we were too ambitious with the miles. We had to take a day off to rest his ankles, and then sometimes, when you’re in a charming place, we wanted to stay for two days. You never know where you’re going to end up when you’re traveling, especially like this.

Are there specific continents that you found to be tougher to cycle?

In terms of food or somewhere to stay, you can always get to something. You’re never that far away from buying food or a town person, which makes it easier but of course more expensive. You’ll probably exceed your daily budget in Europe, compared to Asia. Central Asia was complex; you can’t get any break from the sun, you need to carry all your food in your bike, so your bikes heavy. But then, it is boiling and humid in South Asia, which I was not used to and I’m dreading going back into that.

Are you planning on continuing where you left off when travel recovers?

I don’t know when it will be because we need countries to be open and need many to open. We don’t want to fly out to have to come back. I’m more a little bit worried about winter and how we can handle the winter. We’re just taking it day by day and enjoying what we’ve got now; building careers and stuff.

Did you plan your trip based on the seasons?

Yeah, we had a plan, and it didn’t work out. We were so excited that we were never going to see winter again. It didn’t happen. We hit China in October, which was the start of their winter. In winter, when the roads are icy, they don’t grit them like in England. It was like an ice rink, there were times where we would be walking or skidding, and we were so cold. I was wearing five layers of my clothing, including an oversized fat jacket, and we were still cold. The snow made parts of the trip hard to enjoy because we were so cold.

Do you cycle through bad weather?

It’s up to you if you want to cycle through the rain. In Slovenia, it was rainy, which is unusual for their season. People would make about us bring the British weather with us. It’s usually beautiful and hot. It rained for days on end, but we cycled through it. The only time that weather caused a real problem in the desert because it’s so flat. If you’ve got a headwind when it’s flat, you’ve just got a headwind all day because you’re moving in one direction. There was an excellent app called Windy, which I think is for surfers initially to gauge waves; we use this Windy app, and if there was a headwind, we didn’t go on the bike. Instead, we got a hotel to wait for the wind to get better because it’s just exhausting to push your bike into a headwind all day.

Did you have to do any specific training before the trip?

We are pretty fit anyway, so our fitness was good enough. I could have cycled 100 miles, 100 kilometers in a day without any problems. Cycling with weight was utterly new. I didn’t do much weight training at all before the trip. You don’t have to be that fit because you only have to be able to get somewhere. All you’ve got to do is move forward every single day. It’s a question of time as opposed to fitness.

Where did you sleep during your travels?

We stayed in accommodation quite a lot; we did some camping. We meet some tourists who were riding on a $5 a day budget. They would eat whatever they could find and camp every night. They smelt terrible. We would joke that we are pretty posh cycle tourists. We probably did 70% hotels and 30% camping, something like that, maybe less camping, that’s how I enjoyed it.

When you travel the world by cycling, is there a specific goal or certain things you want to see?

I think it’s a balance of both. We wanted to cycle around the world; that didn’t happen, but it was important. It probably was a priority over everything else; we’re going to cycle an unbroken circle around the world within two years. But I think when you cycle tour, your perception of travel changes because you’re not hitting up the big cities, all the places where everyone goes. I’m not throwing shade at other travelers, but when you cycle, the journey of getting from A to B is what you’re doing, opposed to the destination of the place. You see places in a way that you wouldn’t see them if you flew out somewhere and landed in the city center, which has had all the money poured into it. You can see all the bits around that and village life. We cycled through Georgia one day, and we started in someone’s house because there wasn’t a hotel available. We had these minor interactions with the owners that were special. The people make it, opposed to the places. There’s so much to see on a bike, and you’re immersed in nature.  

Did you find the rural communities more hospitable and friendly?

I find that city people tend to be busier and don’t have the time; I think they’re rude. There’s so much hustle and bustle, and they’re going somewhere themselves. The hospitality in smaller towns and villages is just excellent. I always joke that if we hadn’t said no to people in Turkey, we would still be in Turkey now; people are incredibly hospitable there.

Did you have any concerns about the dangers of cycling or camping?

When we left, I wasn’t that worried about people, but I’m also not naive enough to think there would be no danger. We didn’t experience a single negative interaction with anyone in a year. When you’re cycling, you pass a lot of people as well. I think it’s nice to travel in that way because you are pretty vulnerable. At one point, we nearly ran out of water, but someone happened to be driving that same road in a van, and they stopped and gave us some. We were in the middle of the desert in Uzbekistan, and we couldn’t find anywhere suitable to put a tent up. We stopped at a random café and asked for a hotel, but there wasn’t one; he invited us to stay in a room for free, and he fed us.

When you’re so vulnerable, you have to reach out to people for help, and people do deliver when you need them. I think it restores a lot of faith in humanity. People can be pretty quick to see the world as an evil place, but actually, the world’s a great place. At some point, we are going to get stung by someone, but that’s fine. I’ll take that one in 50 interactions because the other 49 are great.

What do you wish you had known before your trip that you would like to share with new travelers planning their first trip?

We planned pretty well, to be fair, and we were ridiculous about it. I weighed everything, all my clothes. I wouldn’t do that again. I would say to people; you’ve got to live in these clothes, or whatever it is for a year. So take it if you want it because you’ll be OK with them. People carry hefty bikes, and they’re fine; they take them up mountains and get fit. You’re not racing either. When your day job is to cycle, it’s all you’ve got to do. It doesn’t matter if it takes you 12 hours.

I would say I wish I would have relaxed about wait just a little bit and take more time. The second thing would be, don’t panic about how far you can travel or will you do it in time because you well. On a good day, on a flat road with a tailwind, you’ll do those miles to catch up with the days where you had a tough day, and you couldn’t do it. It just works out. It’s fine. Once you start, you embrace the adventurous nature of any given day. It might not go to plan, but we certainly scrapped the plan over time and just went with it. Go with someone you can spend 24/7 with, and don’t overcomplicate it. It’s not that difficult. You need to eat, need somewhere to sleep, and fix your bike if it goes wrong. Thank goodness Stewart can do that because I can’t. But that’s it, eat, sleep and a bike that you can repair.

What is the most memorable story from your trip?

It’s not the most upbeat story, it has a cheerful ending, but it was pretty scary at the time. In Azerbaijan, British citizens with a British passport have eight days completely free. You can enter the country and leave in eight days. We had a plan to cycle through Azerbaijan in five days. If you’re going to be there between eight days to 1830 days, you can still stay, but you have to register your hotels. We thought we were going to be there for five days. Two weeks later, we were still there; we were both unwell. We were so sick we were we might have to go home and go to the hospital. It was just a nightmare. We got better, and we got to the Caspian seas; we’re going across it by ferry from Azerbaijan to Kazakhstan, and we met some other tourists at the ferry port. We had our passports taken off us by immigration, and they couldn’t speak English. We stood watching the ferry, knowing that iut only comes every four days and doesn’t follow a schedule. To cut a long story short, we were left waiting for a long time; then, a friendly border guard helped us. He brought the passports back, and we had to sign a contract in Azerbaijani; I couldn’t read it. Everyone on the ferry had to wait for us. It was so embarrassing. We were fortunate that the border guard helped us out and solved our problem. We went to Kazakhstan.

Was there a target savings amount that you set before you travel?

I think we just saved what we did; we saved so hard, we saved every penny we possibly could, I didn’t buy anything. We didn’t buy new clothes for anything, but it completely changed my mentality on things like fashion. We ate the cheapest food we could find in the supermarket; we would buy all the reduced stuff, even if we hated the meal. We looked at the amount of money that we had, minus the expenses of the bikes, and then divided money by days. When we realize it’s going to take longer, we looked at the budget again and divided it by 18 months to see how much our daily rate was, and we tried to stick with it, so that’s how we managed.

It was about Forty pounds a day on average, which is quite a lot for some travelers. To be honest, it was a high budget; actually, people do it a lot cheaper than what we did.

Which side hustles did you find takes little time or goes well with your job or your travels?

I’ve got a job, and I’m saving more money by freelancing. Before the trip, I didn’t even know about freelancing; I didn’t know it was a thing. I didn’t think it was lucrative. I didn’t think I could do it. I figured only the luckiest people in the world get to do; that’s honestly what I thought. So alongside my full-time job, I did food delivery on a bicycle. It was good training because I was carrying something on my back cycling, and it tends to be quite an intense cycling because you’ve got someone’s hot food; you want to get out there pretty fast. It’s like interval training. I think one of the quickest ways to save money is to cut back on your expenditure, rather than trying to work yourself into the ground because if you cut back on your bills, cut back on your food, cut back on luxury items, you’ll be surprised.

While we were on the trip, the plan was not to work. Maybe it was nine months in, and we didn’t need money, but I wondered if I could write blogs and make money. I decided to sign up for Upwork; I wasn’t expecting to do anything particularly lucrative with it. I just thought, wouldn’t it be nice to earn some money while I write a blog, and that’s all I wanted. Traveling allowed me to do something with no pressure to start writing blogs at $10.

How did you incorporate writing into your cycling days?

It was hard, to be honest, it was difficult as well because it wasn’t part of the plan. I was adding in another layer of something to do. Cycling is an eight to 10 hour work day. Then when you get back to the hotel, you eat and go to sleep. Whereas now I was getting back late eating and then working. It wasn’t hard work. It wasn’t overly strenuous. But some nights I would be typing blogs being super, super tired, thinking I don’t know if this is a good idea. Stuart stuck to the plan, but I’m glad I did it. I did find I can love sales as well, so when I knew that I had a blog to write, I would write with so much power because I was excited to get back to that hotel and make $10.

Did you experience internet issues?

In Vietnam, the internet is incredible, but the internet and websites aren’t as available in China. We did some hotels with Wi-Fi, and it’s not that difficult to plan around that.

Did you have to book your accommodation in advance, or did you walk in?

It was always on the day; you never really know what will happen on a bike ride. We would usually turn up in the city or town village and look at booking.com. We would go directly to the hotel rather than bool it with booking.com. Sometimes you can save a little bit doing that. If we went into cities, we would plan because we want to be near the tourist attractions.

Are you exploring any further freelancing options?

I have my accounts making about $10 on Upwork per blog, which sometimes will take me two hours. I felt empowered being freelance, and I loved it. I’m involved with making sales as well; I find that gives me a real boost. It didn’t take long for it to kick off for me. When I got home, I asked for my old job back, but I didn’t get a job there because of the pandemic. I went to work in the local supermarket, and I was doing online shopping for deliveries; I did that for 12 weeks. Then I quit as I was comfortably making money on Upwork. It’s all about reviews on Upwork, start cheap and get five-star reviews, get happy clients. It’s amazing. I think there’s a lot of work out there if you’re willing to put the hours in and build up your portfolio. I started in a pandemic and rocketed in my career.

I think quality is the key; that’s why I did well as well. Provide your client with something a little bit extra, so they’re pleased because they’ve just had something for free effectively. When you’ve been freelancing a while, you can factor that into your price and do it for a rate you’re happy with; then, they’ve had this added value. It’s not that difficult to be part of the top 10% of freelancers.

How do you find the competition of freelancing from developing countries who will work for less?

I think there’s enough space for everyone and I think it’s about your target client. My target client wants to work with a native English speaker, so I’m not worried because they can share the clients that I didn’t want to work with. I don’t want to be paid $10 for a blog anymore; I like the ones that will pay me $70 for the blog. I’m completely unfazed by it. I’m happy to see anyone go freelancing.

What tips do you have for someone who wants to start freelancing?

I would say, have a low rate, and niching out is good. When you are on a freelancing platform, you need to make sure you can provide the best piece of work. I would never apply for technical writing or medical writing because I know out there there is someone better than me at that. But if it was travel writing, I think I could stand out against the people who apply. It doesn’t mean I’ll get it. Still, I’ve probably got a good chance if it’s writing about bicycles; that was my first ever blog riding bikes to Vietnam. Unleashing is essential; some people do freelancing platforms, and they apply for everything. I think it’s a fair argument; as a freelancer, you will attract a low-quality client if you set a low budget. That hasn’t been my experience. You can look at the client’s profile and see the types of reviews that people have left them, and they’ve left the freelancer. If all of those reviews are respectable, the chances are you’re going to have a good experience. I would say to try a few different platforms. I started on Upwork, it went well, but it didn’t deter me from making a Fiverr account. Don’t get demoralized and roll with the punches.

How much time do you spend between your workload and finding new clients?

I’m not sure how much time I spend, but I probably do look at the job board every day. I’m a little bit lucky, and I’ve got four long-term clients. It takes a while to get to that point, especially for blog writers; generally, I’ll write a blog, and the contract ends. I wouldn’t spend ages on that; just look in the morning, look in the afternoon, then only apply when it’s relevant. So maybe an hour a day if you’ve got a contract that moves quite fast, and it’s going to be over soon.

How do you determine when to raise your prices?

I think I’m pretty intuitive; I used to work in sales, I’m pretty good at sales. If you need a guide, I think, as I said, go low. If you get to a point where you’re busy higher your prices; the minute I’m busy, my prices go up. And then I can always bring them down again if I lose those clients and need to get work fast. You can get the top-rated status as well; I can’t remember how you get that. Once you’ve got that top-rated Upwork, start recommending you to jobs, so you come with a bit more gravatar, you look like you’re a seasoned freelancer.

What preparations are you taking so you can continue writing when cycling? (e.g. Are you tweaking your journey in terms of your travel speed or time to factoring in remote working?)

I love freelancing too much not to do it now. I genuinely love it; I find it fulfilling and motivating; it makes me happy. I’m not looking to quit my job again and be unemployed. So the very open plan will be to fit it into my travels somehow. It may well be pretty tricky because we had fewer visa restrictions during the first half of the trip. And the second half of the trip, we’ve got visa restrictions. Australia, for example, is a vast country. We’ve got to get through it in three months, and I’m not expecting great Wi-Fi, so there are going to be areas that might be pretty tricky to work on. But I’ll figure it out; I’ll be open and honest with my clients and explain my situation. I see it more as a lifestyle thing, the second trip, and maybe we will stop in a country sometimes and have a few months there, which we didn’t do on the first trip.

What services are you offering current?

I have scaled from content writing because I had a digital marketing background. I find it quite hard just to write content without that kind of SEO slant. So I developed pretty quickly into SEO consultancies. I work with VC and b2b businesses and help them create content and a content architecture strategy that will rank on Google. That’s what I’m doing these days.

There’s often a stigma that comes along with mental health illness. However, this doesn’t have to stop one from exploring the world. In this episode, Meggie shares her experiences traveling with Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) and social anxiety. We chat about how she opened up to it due missing out on awesome scenery, some tips to deal with mental health conditions, and ways to prepare yourself for a travel trip even when you have mental health issues.

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The following is an extremely summarized version extracted from the transcript of the full conversation. I strongly recommend listening to the podcast for all the valuable insights. You will also hear more detailed and contextualized stories from the guest(s), as well as pointers from me in a two-way conversation.

As a traveler who wants to raise awareness of mental health issues, is it easy to identify someone who is suffering?

You can’t see that stuff; mental health problems are hidden disabilities. You don’t even know if you’re suffering from anything or not. I admit that I hid my mental health problems for many years as a teenager and everybody thought I was a neurotypical person. The longer I hid my symptoms, the longer I suffered because I didn’t know what I had. I didn’t think I had OCD. I felt pressure to hide it from everybody, which was easy to do. But at the same time, it wasted so much of my time and energy. Eventually, I had an epiphany traveling through Western Canada, British Columbia, and Alberta. I realized I needed to get help from the mental health services because I didn’t particularly appreciate hiding it anymore. I haven’t done extensive traveling around the world yet. Still, I think the most beautiful drive I’ve ever been on, so far, is the Trans Canada highway. It stretches from Western to Eastern Canada; I only traveled the western part. It was beautiful because of the massive towering mountains and the turquoise lakes; it felt like a whole other world. I come from the desert in Arizona. So it was a wow moment for me. But I had OCD thoughts, and they kept distracting me from the scenery. I was so worried about all kinds of things. The thing about OCD is that it makes you worry about stuff that isn’t real. It’s illogical stuff. It’s called obsessive-compulsive disorder. Think of it like a broken record. These irrational thoughts keep coming up in your consciousness and making you worry so much about it.

Can you explain OCD a bit more?

A common myth about OCD is that when people see something on the table that’s not aligned, they have to align it. The thing about OCD is that there are so many kinds of obsessive thoughts and compulsions. Some people might have the aligning OCD, and some people don’t. I don’t, my desk is always a mess, and I have OCD; I don’t care. Every person who has OCD has different OCD thoughts, and the desk alignment thing is not the only one. But I do have other OCD thoughts, and some are better known. For example, one of my main OCD thoughts is the kitchen stove. Even though the kitchen stove is off, my OCD wants me to feel confident the kitchen stove is off. Even if I checked and all the switches were off, my OCD is unconvinced that it is off. The thing with OCD is feeling certain is impossible, but you want to feel sure. That’s why I would check the burner repeatedly.

I might look at the stove forever, but my OCD still doesn’t think it’s entirely off. Behind each OCD thought is usually fear. In that case, the fear is the house burning down and losing all my possessions, and being held responsible. That’s the fear that’s driving me to check the stove; it gives me so much anxiety, that fear. I learned through therapy how to cope with these thoughts and relabel them. It’s hard because OCD wants you to believe that you’re not checking carefully enough, but if you relabel the ideas, you can move on with your life. I have to feel the anxiety and accept it. I also have to accept uncertainty; that is probably the heart of OCD therapy. You have to embrace uncertainty, and that’s what I love about travel. I’m not using travel for treatment, but it teaches me to accept fate because we all know that travel is an uncertain activity. Things don’t always go according to plan. We have to adjust things and solve problems on our own. So, in a sense, trouble also builds my resilience against OCD. It’s not therapy, but it teaches me to be more accepting of uncertainty.

Can people without OCD suffer from these thoughts?

Yeah, that’s a good point you raised there. Many people don’t have OCD, but plenty of people have these thoughts that come to your mind out of nowhere. Like locking the door and checking the stove. Even though you don’t have OCD, the brain can still hang on to something. The difference between you and me is that you won’t stress out about these scenarios when you think about them. It won’t take up as much time and energy as it’s not a big deal. But for me, I would keep coming back to check. The more I check more anxious I would feel; my OCD is unconvinced. That is the difference. We spend at least an hour of their day thinking compulsively and obsessively. You feel so stuck on that one thing. It like your whole life depends on that one thing.

What was the trigger that got you to open up about your OCD?

So, the main trigger was my rental car. I was traveling with my dad, and we rented this car.  OCD can come up with the weirdest stuff. One of those triggers was me writing things on the roof. My OCD was worried that I’d write bad words on the car’s interior even though I would never do something like that. I would never write nasty comments on the roof. I would never do something like that. Why would I do that? But my OCD was worried that I would do it; it comes up with the strangest things. The actual fear behind that weird thought was being afraid that I would get arrested. It comes up with all kinds of stupid narratives. The fear drove me to compulsively checking the roof while we were going through Canada. I saw some incredible scenery, but I also missed out on some novel views because these thoughts controlled my life, and that hurt me.

Once a road trip ended in Calgary, Alberta, I met a lovely friend. I noticed that Canadians are so polite and friendly, I have never met an exception, but I’m sure there are. Anyway, I made a new friend, and she noticed one of my OCD symptoms. I couldn’t believe it. This friend I just met indirectly told me that they saw I had some strange behavior. I couldn’t take it anymore; I was so tired of hiding it. I didn’t know what mental health problem I had, so after the Canada trip, I told my parents about my symptoms. They were very accepting of me. They were scared, but they were so loving. They wanted to support me in going to professional mental health services. I learned I had OCD, and from there on, I went through therapy and learned how to deal with these OCD thoughts. It’s a work in progress because it’s a chronic mental illness. It’s something I will live with for the rest of my life.

Was your OCD diagnosis an easy journey?

It has been quite a journey, and I survived. Now I’m happy to tell my stories. I can’t believe that I used to be so scared, but now I’m so willing to share my stories because I know there are folks out there who might be having mental health problems. It might be OCD; it might be something else. But it just warms my heart to see people thanking me for sharing my story. I love embracing this vulnerability of sharing my stories because it inspires people to come out. Then maybe they’ll even reach out to their families and seek professional health services. I’m so glad I get to influence people’s lives in such a beautiful way because mental health is hard to talk about. I love seeing people who need mental health services get help. It makes me so happy to see them doing that.

What common challenges do you face when you are traveling around different places?

I have to remember that I have OCD because sometimes, when I’m traveling and having so much fun, I can forget I have OCD. After all, it differs because some people who have OCD might be having more OCD symptoms. Some travelers have fewer OCD symptoms while they’re traveling, especially if it’s fast-paced travel. I noticed that if I’m traveling fast-paced, I have fewer OCD symptoms because my OCD doesn’t find the same triggers. But I have to be careful with that because if I get complacent, it can sneak up to me at any moment. Whether I’m traveling fast, traveling slow, it doesn’t matter what pace; I made the mistake of trying to distract myself by traveling fast. I had these OCD thoughts, and it was too much for me. I was eventually able to get back into travel and improve my mental health again. But you have to be careful about these things because an OCD thought can come out of nowhere, and you may not seem prepared for it. It would be best if you keep your mental health as a priority. You might be having so much fun keeping yourself busy, meeting new people, going to so many places. However, remember your therapeutic techniques. You always have them with you and never lose them, even if you have a setback. Setbacks happen; they happen quite a lot.

Sometimes relapses can occur too, be aware of those things and catch them early. I need to practice mindfulness work even with mental health problems. I read books about mindfulness in general, but there are also books about being mindful with OCD. It’s a lifelong process, whether I’m traveling or at home.

So, is it about positively channeling those OCD thoughts?

Yeah, you hit the nail right on the head. It’s about catching those OCD thoughts. Even people without OCD might be having negative thoughts that come out of nowhere. In some ways, that’s a lot like dealing with OCD, catching those thoughts quickly, and trying to move on from them. Admittedly, it’s tough because OCD is almost like a glue trap because it wants you to hang on to it because it’s so repetitive in my mind. Sometimes it’s tough for me to tear away from it. There’s mindfulness with OCD, too, but it’s slightly different because I understand that OCD thoughts are a lot stickier than other thoughts.

I have read some of your guest posts, and they read like you’re talking through your thoughts. Do you write a lot of content about your OCD?

I wrote a blog about the three most common OCD triggers during my travels. One of them is airport security. It’s that fear of being imprisoned in another country and my records getting tainted. There’s different OCD content, but the fears are the same. I’m going to get detained in another country. Because there’s so much surveillance at the airports, it scares not only my OCD but also my social anxiety. I feel so self-conscious at the airport. Writing that article was a healing process because I got to put everything down on paper, expressing it differently and sharing it with the travel audience.

Once I had just landed in San Jose International, Costa Rica. I was waiting for my hostel taxi driver, but I couldn’t find him. I asked an airport worker where the bathroom was, and it was over in the diner. I didn’t want to go over there because I was afraid of missing my taxi. That wasn’t an OCD thought; I didn’t want to lose my driver. So I stuck around where my anxiety started to kick in. The airport worker kept pointing over to the toilets and trying to get me to go and use them, even though I clearly said I didn’t need to use the bathroom. Eventually, I just gave up and went to the bathroom so she would keep quiet. But my anxiety, in that case, was, why are people targeting me? Why is this lady drilling me to use the bathroom? I feel that way at other airports now too.

In a sense, because the social anxiety makes me feel self-conscious, and then the OCD worsens the fear. So those two disorders can work together well, especially at the airport. I was once at this airport, and there was a security emergency. I was able to see the security guards for who they were; everybody was so scared. I could see them as human beings and not as people trying to get to me. I was able to unpeel their macho image and see them for who they are. I might still have OCD thoughts about airport security. Still, I think about that experience, and it helps me to embrace the truth about humanity.

What practices do you find helpful when you’re traveling and feel your OCD coming on?

I learned from an OCD mindfulness book to picture the OCD thought. I might imagine that thought on my desk or in the palm of my hand and see that it’s not a part of me. It’s just something I deal with, but it’s not a part of me. If I can get out of my head and look at it as separate from me, that helps a lot. It’s also about tolerating uncertainty. I have to feel the uncertainty, even though it feels terrible. I have to feel the anxious thoughts and move through them. When I force myself to feel those feelings, it teaches my brain that I don’t have to check these things and survive. I can train my brain that I’m not going to die or get hurt. I’m teaching my brain to lean into these therapeutic practices, even though they can be challenging because I’m going against my brain’s default. My brain is defaulted to keep checking. I’m teaching my brain that I’m not going to check or will check once or twice.

Does it get easier to do with practice?

I’d say it gets easier. I’m better off than before therapy but sometimes relapses happen. It happens to people with mental health problems because the brain is a malleable organ. It can make new pathways over time, new environments, and experiences. When I’m using the therapeutic practices, I’m able to use these new neural pathways that I made for myself, but the old ways will be programmed in my brain for the rest of my life. It’s easier in the sense that I know I have OCD, and I know how to deal with it. I was diagnosed with severe OCD, and it is a lifelong thing.

Are there other ways that you try to reduce stress while you’re traveling?

My favorite part and this is relevant for every traveler. Still, especially travelers who have OCD are not to make a lot of plans. A significant symptom of OCD that a lot of people with OCD have is perfectionism. That’s because OCD wants to correct this and make everything perfect. I know better than that, but I used to let my perfectionism and OCD craft such meticulous plans, and it was so tiring. So, to answer your question, I try not to make too many plans; I might visit a few places, but I try not to book the entire day because I need some time to chill out. Writing in my journal helps because it helps process what’s been going on through my day.  Whether I’m talking about the travel experiences I’ve had or my mental health symptoms, whatever, I’m able to put it down in my journal.

How would you describe your travel style?

I want to experiment with this after the pandemic. I had a revelation during the pandemic after that European trip. I wanted to backpack through South America and Asia last year, and I didn’t get a chance to experiment with slow travel as much as I wanted to. But I’m trying to do that with day trips around Southern California. I think the great thing, the fantastic thing I learned from travel blogging and travel writing, is how I look at travel differently to writing. I’m trying to travel with a purpose. I’m glad that I started my blog last year because it made me more aware of why I am there and what I want to do, and how to make a story out of this. Being a travel writer has opened my eyes to a more fulfilling way to travel. I think traveling at a slower pace helps with that because it helps you understand the place better. You can create great stories out of getting to know one place better than going to 15 locations in 15 days. I’ve been practicing on my blog, even just going to the next county to go grocery shopping with my mom. That’s a travel experience in itself because I’m going to a different neighborhood. We’re grocery shopping in the largest Vietnamese community outside Vietnam; I could explore my heritage there and write a travel story out of that. I learned all these little things for my travel writing; it also helped me embrace that slower pace.

Does writing help you reflect on your thoughts?

Yeah, my travel journal is not limited to just travel; it is also about my mental health.  I write about my thoughts and what is bothering me; I write it down, and it’s free. Once you write it down, it doesn’t linger in your brain as often it’s trying to find a way out. Writing is a beautiful way to process that; I learned this from my therapy and a writer’s conference. I attended a virtual writers conference, and they had workshops for writing about mental health. I also learned that writing helps process thoughts differently. It enables you to step back from them once you put them down in a physical place. I love it because then I get to go home and see what I wrote down, and then maybe I’ll write something public about it in my blog. I’m in a travel writing course with David Farley’s. I asked him how I could put down my experience immediately. He keeps this flippable notepad, and he writes down, what he sees, what he feels, etc. That way, he can capture the senses and what he’s experiencing at that moment, so he doesn’t lose them. When I’m writing travel books, I wonder how these writers can put so much vivid detail? They write down quick observations about what they see and feel, so they’re able to put them into their story.

How do you choose your travel destinations?

I haven’t thought about picking the destination because I think it’s better for my mental health. I go to a destination that I want to visit. Some people with mental health problems may pick a specific destination based on their difficulties with their medications or whether it’s a stressful city with all the hustle-bustle. I don’t know; maybe other travelers have those considerations, but I don’t, mainly because I don’t take mental health medication. I do like nature destinations better than city destinations. I don’t think that’s because of my OCD. I think that’s just because I love nature. I love hiking. I love looking at the scenery around me. I like nature and city travel, but I like nature travel better.

What advice would you give to people with mental health conditions that are considering travel?

Do not travel unless you have sought mental health services. There’s a misconception that you can escape your life problems and mental health problems if you travel. Even I thought travel could alleviate my mental health conditions, but it turned out it didn’t. So please go see actual therapy; travel is not your doctor. Learn from me; I went through a lot of these mistakes. Before you hit the road, find a therapist or a psychiatrist and get treatment for your mental health condition. After some time undergoing therapy, if you think you’re fit to travel, ask your mental health professionals for their recommendation. Once you do that, you need to check what countries list your mental health medications as controlled substances. Some have regulations, and you can only bring a certain amount into the country. If you have a mental health problem while traveling, there are ways to get mental health services, even if you’re in a foreign country. One of those options is online therapy services. Some websites offer therapy services online, and you can message them or them and face to face. So, it’s flexible, and I hear it’s cheaper than the standard therapy services. These are licensed professionals, too, so you can get help even when you’re on the road. You can even schedule a virtual check-in appointment with your mental health professional at home. There are options, but you have to be more mindful of your mental health. You need to make sure that you know how to seek help.

So do your research and be prepared before you venture out into the world?.

Yeah, and there are ways to get prepared for travel and accommodate your mental health condition. One of them is time zone changes because they can be stressful even for people who don’t have mental health problems. If you’re new to traveling, you could try to visit somewhere nearby and get used to it. You don’t have to fly halfway across the world to get accustomed to life on the road. If you enjoy these trips, you could take trips further away and visit destinations in the same time zone or nearby. For example, if you live in North America, you could go to South America, and that’s the same time zone. Be sure you feel comfortable with that, and then you can take the next step.

Are you open to travelers contacting you for advice and support with travel and mental health problems?

Yeah, please start by emailing me; I’m incredibly open about this stuff. So, any curious questions you have or want to say hi, I love getting to meet people. When I came into the travel blogging business, I didn’t expect to meet many other bloggers, content creators, or readers. But it’s such a privilege for me to get to know so many people. It is something I didn’t expect, but I’ve enjoyed it. It’s my favorite way to connect with people. I love getting emails and reading the things you share with me.